Big Screen, Big Crucibles I: Unbroken

Gary Schneeberger:
We kick off our eight-part summer series, Big Screen, Big Crucibles, this week with a look at the Louie that Warwick just mentioned, Louie Zamperini. The movie that documents his incredible story of resilience and courage is Unbroken. In it, we see him as an Olympic athlete, an Air Force bombardier adrift in a lifeboat 47 days during World War II and a prisoner of war brutalized by his captors in Japanese POW camps. How does he survive? By living out the advice he first received from his brother when they both were boys, “If you can take it, you can make it.”
Well, folks, we are back doing something that we love. This is the first episode of our eight-part summer series, which we’re calling Big Screen, Big Crucibles. If that sounds familiar, it’s because this is the third time Warwick and I have talked about movies as a jumping-off point to discuss the crucibles that we all face. So for the next eight weeks, we’ll be taking a look at films that feature a wide variety of crucibles, insightful lessons that they can teach us about not only bouncing back from those crucibles, but on casting a vision for a life of significance.
And our first film, we’re both excited about. You should have been there. We should film sometimes the prep sessions, Warwick, because they’re very… I mean, there’s a lot of stuff that goes on in there when we prepare for this. And Unbroken, if the episode is half as interesting as the prep session was, it’s going to be really, really, really good. The movie came out in 2014, and what I’ll do with every episode that we do of this series is I’ll just read What in Hollywood is called the logline. That’s a short synopsis of the movie. So here’s the short synopsis folks of Unbroken.
As a boy, Louis “Louie” Zamperini is always in trouble. But with the help of his older brother, he turns his life around and channels his energy into running, later qualifying for the 1936 Olympics. When World War II breaks out, Louie enlists in the military. After his plane crashes in the Pacific, he survives an incredible 47 days adrift in a raft until he’s captured the Japanese Navy. Sent to a POW camp, Louie becomes the favorite target of a particularly cruel prison commander. He ensures the unimaginable and yet, finds it in his spirit to, years later, forgive his tormentor. He goes on to become a Christian and start a ministry helping people through life’s most challenging circumstances.
Wow, Warwick. That sounds like a good choice for the first episode of our series, so let me ask you this question before we dive into these crucibles of Louis, and how he overcame them, and what his actions can teach us about our own crucibles. Why movies? Again, this is the third time we’ve gone into the cinema for our summer series. What are you hoping our listeners and viewers get from our discussions here?

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah. Gary, we both love movies, and we’ve enjoyed looking at movies over the last couple years or so of Beyond the Crucible. And movies typically portray a protagonist who’s facing immense and significant challenges which they seek to overcome. So we’ve covered movie heroes, sports heroes, historical heroes, and last year, we had a really fun time looking at movies from the American Film Institute’s top 100 movies. Really, truly great movies that we covered.
This year, we thought we’d look at movies that were focused on crucibles, where we had people who overcame significant crucibles to bounce back and lead a life of significance, a life on purpose dedicated to serving others. So we’ve had a lot of great movies that we’ve looked at this year. It was purely from the lens of what do we think are some of the greatest movies that show immense crucibles that people found a way to overcome.

Gary Schneeberger:
And what’s interesting about this, folks, is we’re doing eight movies in all, and in a previous life… This is just an interesting factoid, and it may come out in some of the discussions. In a previous life, I was a publicist in Hollywood for films, and three of the eight movies, including this one, I worked on when I was publicizing films in Hollywood. So I may have some inside information, if you will, about some of the things that… certainly, from Unbroken, but from some of the other movies that we’re going to cover as well.

Warwick Fairfax:
And just to show you folks that Gary is really… and together, we’re trying to pick some of the best crucible movies. Originally, in the list we were chatting about, that wasn’t on Gary’s list, Unbroken. As soon as I mentioned it, it’s like, “Oh, wait, hang on. I worked on that movie. Of course, we should have it.”

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah.

Warwick Fairfax:
So it’s not like Gary is deliberately trying to put every movie that he has worked on. It just so happens.

Gary Schneeberger:
Thank you for that disclaimer. That is true, and it also shows that I… It’s funny. In watching the movie… I’ll say this before we begin the discussion about what we saw in the movie. In watching the movie, there were scenes I forgot. I mean, I saw this movie like eight times before it came out and in various stages of being done, and I forgot some key scenes in there. So it was, really, eye-opening for me as well, even though I was involved in this in 2014 when it came out.
So, Warwick, let’s go at this, and it’s going to… not be long, I don’t think, but let’s go at this in the order of Louie’s crucibles because I think that’s the best way to understand what he went through and his sheer will to survive. While in the Pacific, on a rescue mission, the plane he and his fellow airmen are on crashes. After the crash, Louie and his two fellow airmen are adrift on a tiny raft in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. No food, no water, burning sun, and oh, if that’s not enough, shark-infested waters. They end up stranded for 47 days. That’s over six weeks. An ordeal few of us can even imagine.
The film shows their desperate creativity, catching rainwater and makeshift containers, snaring a fish or a bird with their bare hands, fending off sharks. At one point, a Japanese plane… Remember, this is in World War II, so the US is fighting Japan. A Japanese plane comes by and strafes them while they’re in… They have to dive into the… out of the life raft and dive into the ocean where those sharks are. But through it all, Louie Zamperini refuses to give up hope.
Warwick, this segment here about them being adrift at sea is about surviving long periods of hardship and deprivation. Think of that raft as a metaphor for any extended trial in life, any crucible someone has been through. Let’s unpack how Louie survived the unsurvivable. So I’ll let you lay out some of this stuff. And again, folks, there’s a lot of stuff here because it’s truly a remarkable story.

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah. So well said, Gary. One of the things I just thought of, even before Louie really takes charge and comes up with a plan, what’s interesting is he accepts the situation that he’s in, because when you watch the movie, what’s interesting is that Louie and his crew in this US bomber in the Pacific Theater that just come back from this harrowing bombing mission, they get strafed, and I think at least one person dies on the plane, and its-

Gary Schneeberger:
Right.

Warwick Fairfax:
… it’s dire circumstances. Somehow they get back to this airfield on this little island somewhere in the Pacific. They make it back, and then they’re told, “Hey, there’s somebody out in the Pacific who needs rescuing. So we’ve got this other aircraft because your one is too beaten up. Why don’t you take this other aircraft?” And obviously, in World War II, there are a lot of beat-up aircraft, and sometimes you take a part from here, a part from there, and patch it up, and hope for the best.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right.

Warwick Fairfax:
And so what’s crazy is this plane crashes, but it’s not because of enemy fire. I don’t think that one bullet hits them.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right, they’re just cruising along. Yeah.

Warwick Fairfax:
It’s because it’s put together with, feeling like, chewing gum and Band-Aids. I mean, metaphorically speaking, because look, they’re doing the best they can. It’s pretty tough. So this thing loses engine after engine, and so Louie could say, “Are you kidding me? God or whoever’s up there, I survived one mission when we’re shot up, and now we’re crashing, and the enemy is not even attacking us. What’s up with this? This is not fair. Come on.” You know?

Gary Schneeberger:
Right.

Warwick Fairfax:
Cut the mechanics. Put a plane together properly. I mean, he could have been unreasonable and go off on that, but you never see that. So, anyway. So the first point to make about Louie in this is he’s not complaining about the situation and saying, “You kidding me? Who crashes because a plane is not even shot down?” But from the beginning, Louie takes charge, he encourages his buddies, he comes up with a plant to survive. So he says, basically, “Okay. We’ve got a couple of chocolate bars and ration. We’re going to have to ration them to two squares of chocolate a day per person. We’ve got these seemingly minute little cans of water with a little screw top on. Okay. Let’s say two, maybe three sips of water per day per person.”
And they seem to agree to this, but out of the two people on that raft, Mac, and there’s another guy, Phil, who’s one of the pilots, Mac doesn’t really seem to be with the program. Louie is saying, “Okay. You good, right? We’ve got a ration.” And Mac is not nodding his head. He’s just looking at him. So, later on, we find a bit later that Mac has eaten all the chocolate bars. This isn’t day 46-

Gary Schneeberger:
Right, and this is only a couple of days.

Warwick Fairfax:
Exactly. I was going to say. This isn’t day 46. This is like day one or two.

Gary Schneeberger:
Exactly.

Warwick Fairfax:
You know?

Gary Schneeberger:
Right.

Warwick Fairfax:
And it’s like… Obviously, Louie is absolutely furious and livid because who knows how long they’re going to be out there, but he handles this challenge well, finds a way to move on, and by definition, must have forgiven Mac because you don’t see him retaliate against Mac at all for the rest of the 47 days. He is not saying, “Well, the reason we’re starving is because of you.” Not once in the movie does it come up. He’s moved on. “Okay, that was yesterday. If we’re going to deal with today, we can’t be worried about yesterday.” So, so many lessons in terms of how Louie finds a way to just survive, but just galvanize these two other people on that raft.

Gary Schneeberger:
And that’s the first real glimpse that we have into the character. Speaking of a word that we’ve talked about as part of our series within the show on the actionable truths of Beyond the Crucible, he shows himself to be a man of character in that moment, and we don’t really know anything about him except that. But right after that scene happens, we learn a little bit more about him. There’s a reason that Louie is able to be resilient. There’s a reason that he’s able to look the other way when someone does something wrong. He’s learned some things in his life, and we get to get a glimpse of that because the movie tells some things in flashback. Right?

Warwick Fairfax:
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting what happens as the plane is crashing in this crash. We go into a flashback, and Louie is a young kid. He’s in church, and there’s a pastor talking about the fact that God created day and night, and we have to live through the night. In other words, we have to… “There will be good times and bad times,” I think is the metaphor he’s trying to get at, and we have to find a way to live through the bad times through the challenges. And the past also says that God sent his son Jesus to forgive our sins, and so there’s also an, obviously, implicit message that we need to learn forgiveness too. So some powerful lessons. Learn to deal with the challenges, learn to deal with the night, and learn to deal with forgiveness.

Gary Schneeberger:
And Louie at that time, he’s a boy. He’s a young boy.

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah.

Gary Schneeberger:
Maybe preteen-ish.

Warwick Fairfax:
Absolutely.

Gary Schneeberger:
And he’s not, by any stretch of the imagination, a Christian kid. He’s fidgeting in church. His dad is looking at him crossly.

Warwick Fairfax:
Oh, yeah.

Gary Schneeberger:
I mean, this isn’t something that Louie is hearing that, really, is soaking into his soul per se. He’s just hearing it. It doesn’t go in one ear and out the other, but I don’t know that it gets stuck in his heart, but he does remember it as time goes on.

Warwick Fairfax:
Oh, yeah. No. It’s seeds that will come to life later on. But yes, it’s not really changing his life too much at the moment. But we also see from the very beginning that he has challenges. He is from an Italian-American family. His parents, certainly his mother doesn’t seem to speak much of any English. And Louie is bullied by the other kids because he’s Italian. They call him names, and it’s very sad. Often, with immigrant groups, depending on the era, whether it’s US or other countries, some are accepted readily and some are not. And certainly, in terms of the Americans back then, we’re talking probably early ’30s, I would guess. Maybe late ’20s. I don’t really know exactly what year it is, but that was the case.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right.

Warwick Fairfax:
And so one of the things we see is clearly, his mother has a very strong faith because you see her in the house praying for Louie, because Louie does tend to act up and gets bullied, and so certainly, Louie needed to find a way to get beyond bullying and not let that define him. And we’ll see later that there is no evidence of that holding him back, but yeah, he had challenges from a very early age.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah, and really, a key figure in his life that helps him move past those challenges, confront those challenges, not be… Well, the movie is called Unbroken, right?

Warwick Fairfax:
Right.

Gary Schneeberger:
Not be Broken by those challenges is his brother Pete, and Pete is his older brother. Pete is a good older brother. He encourages Louie to try out for the track team at school. Louie is not sure. He doesn’t think that track team is going to accept people like him, “people like him,” Italians, but his brother says a very important thing that I know you’re going to talk more about. I’m just going to toss it out here.
His brother tells him, “If you can take it, you can make it,” about being on the track team. Lots of other applications to that. And he begins to train his brother riding his bike while Louie is running. And Louie says he feels he is nothing but his brother believes in him, right? That all important person that believes that regardless of what other people say about us that may be negative, his brother is on Team Louie.
And we also see in another flashback, Warwick, Louie in the 1936 Berlin Olympics. Folks, you may remember these Olympics as the Jesse Owens Olympics. He was the African-American who won, I think, four different events there. Very historically significant. And Louie, he finishes eight in the 5,000-meter race, but his performance was notable for a very interesting point. The final lap of that race, he fell behind, and he sped up. He could take it, so he made it, right? He finishes that race, and he finishes that last lap in only 56 seconds, which was a record, right? It was a record in the US at that time, the last lap of that race. That’s all pretty remarkable stuff, Warwick. Talk about how some of these impacts your understanding of Louie Zamperini and your understanding of how Louie is a model for us in overcoming Crucibles.

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah. What’s interesting about Louie being in the 1936 Berlin Olympics is he was still in high school at the time.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right.

Warwick Fairfax:
And for him to even be in the running, so to speak, to do somewhat well is remarkable. For him to have one of the fastest final lapse against grown men when he’s a teenager is remarkable. And we really see this journey from him talking to his older brother, Pete, saying, “Hey, they don’t want people like me on the track team. The other kids won’t accept me.” And Pete really just encourages him to say, as you rightly say, “If you can take it, you can make it.” That will almost be a life motto for him in which he uses it throughout his life. And certainly, at an early age when he’s in high school, he tried out for the team, and he did phenomenally well. He was at Torrance High School in California, and they used to call him the Torrance Tornado. You know?

Gary Schneeberger:
Okay.

Warwick Fairfax:
He was that quick. Who is this kid? So that was incredible. And to do as well as he did in the Olympics in Berlin in 1936 is incredible. And right after that or at least around that time, his brother, Pete, again, such a great mentor. Not all older brothers are great mentors, but Pete really is. He says to Louie, “A moment of pain is worth a lifetime of glory.” Really, pain is something that you can fuel to really make yourself better. So he’s been mentored, he’s gone through some tough challenges, being bullied, showing that he can be incredibly fast on the track, his brother coaching him, helping him to get to the next level. He is really modeling resilience, and a lot of this is, really, tools that he’s building that is going to help him when he desperately needs it later on in life, both in the raft and then later on in World War II. So these incredibly important life lessons that Louie Zamperini is learning.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah, and Pete Zamperini. Come on. Pete Zamperini was a Beyond the Crucible visionary before Beyond the Crucible existed, right? I mean, “If you can take it, you can make it.” That’s straight out of the advice that you give and, “One moment of pain is worth a lifetime of glory.” Again, right out of the things that we do. I, actually, when I worked on this movie, met Louie’s son, Luke Zamperini. I’ll have to reach out to Luke and tell him some of this stuff that… “Hey, there’s this podcast that your dad would’ve loved.”

Warwick Fairfax:
Well, and one of the things we talk about all the time on Beyond the Crucible is the importance of fellow travelers.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right.

Warwick Fairfax:
It’d be interesting to ask yourself, “What would Louie Zamperini be like if he didn’t have a Pete, he didn’t have an older brother?” I don’t know that he ever would’ve raced. He would’ve said, “They don’t like people like me. They won’t let people like me on the team.” He would never have been in the Olympics. The whole idea of “If you can take it, you can make it.” I mean, who knows what his life would’ve been like, but Pete was a huge part of why Louie Zamperini became the man he became. So a lot of credit goes to Pete. Certainly.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah. So let’s go back to the raft. Louie and his two fellow servicemen drift day after day under the brutal sun, as we said. At one point, Mac, the companion who just couldn’t control himself and ate all the chocolate bars, he passes away, and they give him a very sweet burial at sea. And in those 47 days, in addition to seeing his friend die, Louie faces starvation, thirst, fear, all the things that you can imagine. And the movie does a really good job of showing just how that affects him and how he fights against it.
If we translate what Louie went through, Warwick, into everyday crucibles, like a long illness, for instance, or unemployment, or any prolonged struggle, what practical strategies can people draw from Louie’s experience? Right? That’s what we’re about here, right? These movies, we talk about them because you can learn things about overcoming your crucibles from what we see in these movies. For example, what mindset or routine might help someone get through for one more day of a personal ordeal?

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah. I think Louie Zamperini teaches us two huge things. You have to have hope, and you have to have a plan. Each day, Louie had hope despite the fact that as far as they knew, the record for surviving on a raft was 21 days. This would end up being 47. Can you imagine that day 24, 29, 35? It’s like… How can you have hope at that point? I think most people, many would certainly say, “There is no hope. We’re beyond 21. We’re going to die. It’s just a question of, is it going to be today or tomorrow? It won’t be two days from now. It’ll be today or tomorrow.”
You could have that mindset, but that wasn’t Louie Zamperini. Not only did he maintain hope, he had a plan. It was very creative, as I mentioned, at the very beginning, “Hey, let’s just have two squares of chocolate a day, two sips of water.” Obviously, that plan didn’t work out when the other guy, Mac, ate the whole chocolate once, but you’ve got to readjust your plans, but he had a plan, and then they had to get pretty creative in terms of how to eat and drink. They, as you said, captured rainwater with sacks and their water bottles. They caught a seagull, which, I suppose, they can try.

Gary Schneeberger:
Which was not tasty. Seagull was not tasty.

Warwick Fairfax:
Let’s just say what they ate didn’t stay there, you know?

Gary Schneeberger:
There you go. There you go.

Warwick Fairfax:
So they ate fish. They even ate a shark. They managed to corral the shark, and it was pretty impressive. And obviously, they’re not used to eating raw fish, certainly raw shark, but they found a way. They never gave up hope. And one of the other interesting things is that the other airman on the raft or one of the others was a pilot named Phil. Now, he was a person of very strong faith, and there’s some interesting moments, almost humorous. And so as you do when you’re facing a mortality and thinking, “We may not survive.” I mean, whether you say it or not, you’re just wondering. You know it’s a possibility at this point. So Louie asked Phil if God has a grand plan. That’s a very big cosmic question to ask, “What’s God’s grand plan?”

Gary Schneeberger:
Right.

Warwick Fairfax:
I mean, he’s not really a person of faith, but he’s also-

Gary Schneeberger:
Especially in the midst of war, right? I mean, that’s an-

Warwick Fairfax:
Right.

Gary Schneeberger:
That’s an incredibly big question in the midst of war.

Warwick Fairfax:
Indeed. So Phil says, “You do the best you can and have fun. And when you die, the angel says, ‘You can ask all the dumb questions now.'” Not something that I have typically heard in church, you know?

Gary Schneeberger:
No, no.

Warwick Fairfax:
“When you die, now is the time to ask all those dumb questions.” I don’t know how good the theology was, but it’s pretty humorous, I got to say. So then, Louie makes this almost pact with God, and he says to God that if God rescues him, he’ll give his whole life to God and will do anything he wants. And so we’ll find out life and faith wasn’t exactly very linear for Louie Zamperini, but at least that’s somewhat of an indication that Louie is at least trying to make a turn. He’s trying to have faith and God be a bit more important in his life. But yeah, I guess in summary, you got to have hope, you got to have a plan, and Louie is not quite there yet, but having some kind of faith that fuels the hope is certainly helpful.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah, for sure, as we talk about here all the time. So surviving by day, day by day, and holding onto hope, Louis showed us that even in a tiny raft in a big ocean, the human spirit can endure more than we think. Huge message of this movie, but surviving the ocean was just the beginning, if you can believe it, folks. That’s not even the halfway point of the movie, really, Surviving the ocean.
After those 47 days, Louie’s crucible only deepened. He was rescued by the enemy, which, news flash, isn’t really being rescued. I mean, it’s being rescued from your immediate peril, floating amongst sharks in the ocean, but you’re rescued by the enemy, and they’re a vicious enemy. After those 47 days, he’s faced now with a very different kind of trial. Louie survives the unspeakable at sea, only to land in an even harsher set of circumstances, two years in Japanese prison camps.
In Unbroken, we see how Louie and other POWs survive beatings, starvation, and humiliation daily. One guard in particular, Mutsuhiro Watanabe, nicknamed The Bird by the prisoners, singles out Louie. He cannot stand that Louie is an Olympic athlete and a war hero, and he doesn’t like the fact that try as he might, he can’t break Louie’s spirit. Warwick, Louie’s treatment in the POW camp was beyond horrific. Watanabe tried everything to crush him. What struck you about Louie’s mental and emotional strength during this avalanche of mistreatment that he experienced?

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah. From the moment that Louie is captured, he’s first taken to some remote island, he’s put in this hole, he’s beaten, tortured. There’s just glimmers of light coming out. At one point, he’s taken out and beaten by the soldiers and interrogated. At one point, he and this other airman, Phil, they look like they’re being brought out to be executed. They’re forced to kneel and then undress naked. And Louie, at first, resists to kneeling, and they beat him down till he kneels, and they’re assuming this is going to be it. But then, it turns out it’s not it, and they’re taken to Tokyo in Japan on a ship. So here they are traveling in a truck through Tokyo. At this point, I think they’re separated, Louie and Phil.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right.

Warwick Fairfax:
And the truck that Louie is in is going through Tokyo, and Louie says that he had hoped to race in the 1940 Olympics in Tokyo because that’s when that was slated. And one of the challenges, if not tragedies, is Louie never gets to race in another Olympics because the 1940 and 1944 Olympics were canceled because of World War II. So he’s having this wistful moment. He’s like, “Huh, this is Tokyo. I was hoping to race here in 1940, and it didn’t happen.”

Gary Schneeberger:
Right.

Warwick Fairfax:
And he might’ve had a much better shot being four years older. So now he’s in this prisoner-of-war camp, and as you mentioned, the guy seemingly in charge, at least over this group was Corporal Watanabe. Watanabe says to the prisoners that they’re enemies of Japan and they will be treated accordingly. Those are very ominous words, “You will be treated accordingly.”
Now, we learn that Watanabe grew up in a wealthy family and wanted to be an officer, but he didn’t make it. I think one of the senior prisoners of war spoke some Japanese, and so he was able to figure out some of this from the guards and chatter. And so clearly, it seemed like Watanabe had a chip on his shoulder, and he was going to take out this chip that he had of feeling like he’s not achieving maybe what his family expected of him, that he was going to take it out on the prisoners and especially Louie Zamperini.
At one point, Louie says he’s going to kill Watanabe. He’s had it, and the senior US officer at the camp says, “The way you win is by surviving the war.” And at that point, Louie recalls the words of his brother, “If he can take it, he can make it.” And so he was going to have to take a lot of brutality and beatings from Watanabe, and he did take it.

Gary Schneeberger:
And it’s interesting, Warwick. When they first meet, when Watanabe first confronts Louie in the camp, he gets right in his face, and he tells him, “Look at me.” Right? He tells him, he commands him to look at him, and Louie won’t do it, can’t do it, doesn’t want to do it. And that exchange will play out as this movie carries on, this idea that Watanabe wants to break him down by having him stare into his eyes and force his will on him through eye contact and through intimidation. That will play out, folks. Put a pin in this one. We’ll come back to it in a few minutes because you’ll see how that all plays out, but that was a… to your point, shows how he singled Louie out from the beginning.

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah. So well said. And at one point, amidst all this torture and deprivation, Louie, obviously, is somewhat well-known being an Olympic athlete. He’s taken to this Japanese radio station. It looks all very swank with a… very well-furnished place, beautiful architecture, and all. And he’s being asked to tell the world that he’s okay and that… just to give some words to his family, so he’s willing to do that, “Hey, I’m okay,” and express love to his brother and family.
And he’s eating at a beautiful cafeteria. Some of the folks at the Japanese radio station, they come up to him, and they basically say, in not so many words, “We want you to lie on radio. Just spout forth what we want you to say.” And there were some things like that. I think, from memory, there was a woman by the name of Tokyo Rose who would… I don’t know if she was American, but certainly had an American accent, would really try to, through propaganda, just beat down the Americans and allies in the Pacific Theater in World War II, and there was a German equivalent in the European Theater. So they probably wanted him to be this kind of figure, an Olympic athlete spouting propaganda for Japan.
I mean, that’s a great PR move if you are Japan in the midst of World War II. Well, obviously, Louie Zamperini wouldn’t have any of it, even though he realized he would have good food and good conditions. So he went back to the prisoner-of-war camp, and Watanabe just continues. He wants to teach Louie respect, and so in one scene, he has each prisoner being forced to punch Louie in the face, and Louie just yells at him saying, “Do it. Do it,” because they realize if they don’t do it, then there will be… all the rest of the prisoners will be tortured and mistreated even more. So he’s willing to take one for every prisoner in the camp.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right, and that, right, brings back his brother’s counsel, “If you can take it…” Right? He’s willing to take one. You just said it. “If you can take it, you can make it.” And he lives through that as each man walks up and socks him in the face.

Warwick Fairfax:
It almost sounds biblical, One man taking all this pain for the sake of others, ironically.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah.

Warwick Fairfax:
I don’t know that he was probably thinking that, but it does make you think that. So then, later on, we see that Louie is taken by train through snow-covered mountains to another camp. And just when you think like, “Hey, at least I’ve got out of this camp,” lo and behold, we found Watanabe, who’s been promoted from a corporal to a sergeant, is at that camp and seemingly in charge of them. And at this camp, what they’re doing is this back-breaking work of lifting these heavy baskets full of coal onto these barges, one after another. I mean, they’re just covered in soot and coal dust. I mean, it’s torture of a different kind. It’s back-breaking work of hauling coal into the barges.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah, and there is a pivotal scene that comes after this, Warwick. It’s one of the most moving ones in the entire film, but one of the most inspiring ones in the entire film. So let’s take a look at that scene and listen to that scene right now.

Audio:
If he drops it, shoot him.
[foreign langauge 00:37:03].
Louie.
Come on, boy.
Come on, Louie.
Don’t look at me. Don’t look at me. Myrna. Myrna. Myrna.

Gary Schneeberger:
So, Warwick, you’ve seen that scene more than once over the years. What’s your reaction to it in the context of what we’re talking about here for the podcast?

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah. I mean, this is such a powerful scene. There’s been this battle, this war of wills between Watanabe and Louie Zamperini, and Watanabe is attempting to break Louie. As we see in that clip, he says, “You keep holding up that heavy beam, and if you drop it,” he tells the soldiers, “shoot him.” I mean, it’s pretty clear he is hoping that Louie just can’t take it, gives up, drops the beam, and that… I guess Watanabe is hoping the soldiers will actually do what he tells him to and shoot him. He wants to win. This is the final moment of victory. He feels like the victory is within his grasp. I mean, surely-

Gary Schneeberger:
Particularly, Warwick-

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah.

Gary Schneeberger:
Particularly, that the war is slipping away from Japan too.

Warwick Fairfax:
Oh, yeah.

Gary Schneeberger:
So we’ve got to believe he’s really thinking, “This is my chance to win something big out of this.”

Warwick Fairfax:
Oh, absolutely. Here’s Louie Zamperini. He’s been tortured and beaten, and he’s just been worn down by just hauling these baskets of coal. He finally just drops it. He’s exhausted, and then he had to go through this whole hold-up-the-beam episode. And what’s remarkable is that Louie was strong and defiant, and he just wouldn’t break. I think as you were hinting at earlier, he says, “Don’t look at me.”

Gary Schneeberger:
Right, right.

Warwick Fairfax:
He can’t-

Gary Schneeberger:
He totally flips what he wants from Louie because now the power has shifted in his mind and in viewers’ minds.

Warwick Fairfax:
Absolutely. And at that point, you see that Watanabe falls to his knees. He has been defeated. In this battle of will and resilience, Louie has triumphed. We see that not long after, it’s announced that the war is over, and we see a US bomber flying overhead. Soon after, care packages dropped from the planes, the gas disappear, and what’s interesting, we then see Louie goes to Watanabe’s quarters. There are no guards around. Watanabe’s fled, and we see in Watanabe’s quarters there’s a photo of Watanabe as a kid with his dad, and his dad looks like a military officer.
So it’s just emblematic of, “Look at this famous father who’s done well, and Watanabe really hasn’t.” And then towards the end of the movie, we see Louie gets off a plane. He’s back in the US. He’s back home. He hugs his parents. He hugs his brother. He survived. He survived the war. He survived everything that Watanabe threw at him. It’s remarkable.

Gary Schneeberger:
And that scene with Watanabe of Louie seeing his picture, going up into Watanabe’s office and seeing that picture, right before then, Louie goes home and sees his parents. I’ve always taken that, even when I worked on the film 11 years ago, I’ve always taken that as Louie absorbing the humanity of his tormentor. It was something about this little boy with his father there that Louie wasn’t angry at looking at it. He wasn’t relieved at looking at it. It shook him a little bit. I think it moved him a little bit. That’s my read on it anyway when you look at him going in there. The war is over, his tormentor is gone, and he sees this tormentor as a young boy in this situation, and maybe he sees a little humanity in that moment. I think that’s a pretty good read given what ends up happening to Louie Zamperini in his life after Japan.

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah. I mean, it’s so well said. I think one of the things we say in Christianity and the church is you hate the sin, love the sinner. Easy to say, pretty difficult to do under these sorts of circumstances. We also say it’s important to forgive. That doesn’t mean condoning the behavior of people like Watanabe at all, but yeah, to see the humanity in him. Maybe that was part of the journey of forgiveness that we’d find that Louie was on. But yeah, even people who’ve done horrific things to you, you might think what they did is uncomfortable and horrific, but to see the humanity behind them doesn’t mean you condone a thing, but I think it ultimately is helpful. You got to see people as human, even some of the people that we think are the worst in the world. It is helpful.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right, right. So enduring injustice often means suffering without immediate retaliation or remedy. From Louie’s experience, what advice would you give to someone in a situation where they have to “survive mistreatment?” What inner resources or support can they draw on like Louie drew on in his determination and loyalty to his fellow POWs to get through it, right? How can they lean into this idea of if you make it, you can take it?

Warwick Fairfax:
In hindsight, Louie was about as well-prepared as you can be for his torture, especially at the hands of Watanabe. His mission was to break him. That was like one of his chief aims in the prisoner-of-war camp. From an early age, Louie experienced discrimination and injustice as a kid and was bullied because of his Italian heritage, but he overcame that. He didn’t let that define him. He became an elite athlete, overcoming his negative belief that he was nothing because when his brother, Pete, said, “Hey, Louie, why don’t you try out for the track team?” He said, “Look, I’m nothing.” And his brother had to say, “No, no, that’s not true,” and he just really encouraged him.
There were the seeds of his faith that became important in his life by that pastor at his church, and then later by Phil, the pilot who was in that raft for 47 days. And speaking of that raft, being on that raft for 47 days was also, ironically, preparation for the coming torture. He had to learn to survive. You got to think one day at a time, you got to have hope, and you’ve got to have a plan. He was able to use those key concepts, think one day at a time, have hope, and have a plan, to survive the years of being tortured.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah. Then, we get to the epilogue of Unbroken, and it notes in history tells us some things about Louie. His inner battle wasn’t over. He had nightmares. He had anger. He had severe PTSD from the abuse he endured. He was haunted by memories of Watanabe. It would’ve been easy, even natural for Louie to live out his days consumed by bitterness and hatred for his former captors, and yet, and this is the remarkable part, remarkably, he chose forgiveness. Louie’s suffering had meaning for him. It was a test of his character, faith, and perhaps preparation for something greater. Boy, does that not sound like every guest on Beyond the Crucible, that their crucibles are all of that?

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Gary Schneeberger:
Later, we know how his story itself became an inspiration to millions. That’s a powerful meaning that can emerge from pain. So, Warwick, holding on to anger, you have said many, many, many times, it’s like being a prisoner, and forgiveness sets us free. Why is forgiveness so crucial for healing after a trauma?

Warwick Fairfax:
I mean, certainly, forgiveness is one of the biggest lessons of this whole movie. Louie spends a lifetime in forgiving others for injustice that’s been done to him. He finds a way to move beyond bullying as a young boy for being of Italian heritage. He doesn’t let that define him, and despite the fact that he doesn’t really want to be on the track team, his brother, Pete, encourages him, and he does compete on the track team.
He finds a way to forgive Mac for eating all the chocolate on the raft. I mean, he could easily have said, “You’ve just killed us. It’s over. Let’s give up. I mean, this is… I told you we had to ration at two squares a day, and within a day or two, he eats the whole thing?” But yet, throughout the rest of those 47 days and the time up until Mac passed away, you never see any indication that he holds that against him. He just treats him as if it never happened, which is truly remarkable. And Louie even finds a way to forgive Watanabe for years of torture and humiliation. It’s really almost Olympic level of moving beyond injustice and finding a way to forgive.

Gary Schneeberger:
Which makes sense coming from an Olympian, right?

Warwick Fairfax:
Well said. And we learn in the credits that after the war is over, he goes to Japan, and he meets with the guards of the prisoner-of-war camp, and he meets with them face-to-face and forgives them. Only Watanabe would not meet with him. We don’t know why really. Maybe it’s because he feels like, “My enemy has defeated me. I’m not going to let him humiliate me even more and come to meet me.” Watanabe was too small a man, just couldn’t handle it, I’m sure, couldn’t handle that experience.
So beyond the crucible, we often say, and we say it all the time, that lack of forgiveness is like drinking poison, and it’s like being in prison. Louie was literally in a physical prison, but yet, he may have been in a physical prison, but in terms of a metaphorical prison or his prison of the soul, he was not in that kind of prison. Louie was free during those times of being in a prisoner-of-war camp, during that time in the raft. He did not let his circumstances define him. That may have imprisoned his body, but his soul could never be chained.
And even in that key moment of the movie, he’s forced to lift that beam, he was still free. His spirit was not chained at all. So, again, we say all the time, the forgiveness does not mean condoning injustice. Certainly, the kind of injustice that Louie faced. I mean, that’s about as bad as it gets, that, just torture over years. But while we don’t condone what’s that kind of injustice, we can’t move beyond our crucible and avoid being defined by it without forgiveness.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah. We’re not quite done yet, folks. There’s title cards that come after the credits. From those title cards, we learn that Louie returned to the Winter Olympics in Japan in 1998 and ran a leg with the Olympic torch. Ironically… Probably not ironically, probably as you said, Warwick, because we were talking about this. Probably very intentionally, very near the prisoner-of-war camp that he was at, he went on to marry and start a family.
As I mentioned, I’m blessed to have met and become friends with his son, Luke. And he founded a camp for troubled boys called Victory Boys Camp using his story to help young people find the right path. And he also became a sought-after inspirational speaker sharing his message of forgiveness and resilience, all this stuff. And again, I’m going to use my perspective from having worked on this movie in Hollywood in 2014.
All of this didn’t fit into the full movie because you learn in Hollywood, movies have three acts. Here’s the problem… the challenge, not a problem. The excellent, wonderful challenge about Louie Zamperini’s life, it had four acts. It had the Olympics, it had being adrift at sea during the war, and it had prisoner-of-war camps, but it also had at the end of that that fourth act. That fourth act was forgiveness. That fourth act was starting a family, and it was one other thing that we’ve hinted at a little bit throughout this entire episode, and that is, right, Louie, when he was a kid, there’s a flashback to the preacher in his church and his friend, his fellow airman on the boat who he asked some questions about God.
One of the things that I was responsible for, ironically, and I’m proud of it mostly because as a Christian, it was a great opportunity to do this. Angelina Jolie who directed the movie was the one who… It’s three acts. You got to do three acts. It’s a great movie in three acts. She couldn’t get to the fourth act. But we, the firm I worked for, spoke with her, and we got a title card put at the end of the movie that said this. I’m going to hold it up right here so you can see it. I actually took a picture of it when I watched the movie, and here’s what the title card, the last title card reads on the film, “After years of severe post-traumatic stress, Louie made good on his promise to serve God. The decision he credited was saving his life.”
And that’s really where Louie’s story lands in the fourth act, which there is, by the way. There is a second movie that was made that does all the stuff that we were talking about here called Unbroken 2, I believe so. If you want to check that out, check that out. But Warwick, for folks who’ve been listening and watching, and might feel like their crucible experiences have ruined their life or left them aimless, what lessons can we learn and apply to help us come back from our crucibles from Louie’s story?

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah. Louie Zamperini’s life is a story of resilience and refusing to be broken. He is, indeed, truly unbroken from the very beginning, whether it’s being bullied by other kids, feeling like he doesn’t fit on the track team and he’s nothing, he’s worthless from his perspective to coming back on the last lap of the Olympics race, surviving 47 days on a raft, and through surviving years of torture at a Japanese prisoner-of-war camp. Louie never gives up. Louie never gives in. He never gives up. He will not be defined by… We had more than one worst day. He many. He had years of worst days, years of challenges, years of beatings and torture, 47 days of worst days on a raft. I mean, he’s had a lot of worst days, but he refuses to be defined by… He refuses to be broken.
So I think that Louie shows us that the key to survival within our spirit and soul is resilience, hope, faith, having a plan, and taking life one day at a time. And we see those kernels of faith that maybe were laid when he was in church as a boy and then by this fellow airmen in the life raft and his initial conversation saying, “If I survive, I’m going to follow you, Lord, and follow your plan for my life.” It took a while, and he had, as you mentioned, PTSD and challenges after the war as I’m sure many people who’ve fought in World War II and other wars have had. But through all of those circumstances, some in the movie, some in the second movie, he never let them break it.
And really, I think the key lesson that we can learn is every day, we have a choice. Are we going to be broken or unbroken? Are we going to be defined by that day, which may be an incredibly tough day, it may be the worst day of our life, or are we going to choose to say, “I’m not going to let this day, I’m not going to let these circumstances defeat me. I will be unbroken today, and then the next day, and the next day, and the next day, each day,” to refuse to be broken in your spirit so that in that sense, you’re living a life of significance unbroken in the sense that if you’re defined by your worst day, that’s not being unbroken? Being unbroken means coming back from your worst day, from your most challenging crucible to lead a life of significance, life on purpose, dedicated to serving others.

Gary Schneeberger:
Folks, you may see the lights are on now. The theater is no longer dark. We finished our feature. We have finished the first episode of our summer series. We have eight in all. This was the first one. If you enjoyed this, we ask you to do a couple things. One, if you’re listening on your favorite podcast app, subscribe so you never miss an episode, and leave a comment. Tell us what you think about the show in general, this episode in particular.
If you’re watching this on YouTube, do the same. Subscribe to the channel so you get episodes every week when they come out, but also, leave a comment. Tell us what you thought about this episode because we really appreciate your feedback. And next week, we are going to move on. I’m going to run outside right after we finish this and put that up on the marquee. Our film next week that we’re going to discuss is Hidden Figures. So until then, folks, save us an aisle seat.
Welcome to a journey of transformation with Beyond the Crucible Assessment. Unlike any other, this tool is designed to guide you from adversity to achievement. As you answer a few insightful questions, you won’t just find a label like The Helper or The Individualist. Instead, you’ll uncover your unique position in the journey of resilience. This assessment reveals where you stand today, the direction you should aim for, and crucially, the steps to get there. It’s more than an assessment. It’s a roadmap to a life of significance. Ready? Visit beyondthecrucible.com. Take the free assessment and start charting your course to a life of significance today.