Don’t Let Fear of Change Steal Your Future

What if the biggest regret of your life isn’t something you did, but something you were too afraid to do?

In this episode, we take on a challenge nearly everyone faces: letting go of the familiar and finding the courage to embrace the unknown. A promising job opportunity. A move to a new city. A chance to pursue a dream. The opportunities that could change our lives for the better are often the ones that frighten us most. Through 10 actionable principles, we show you how to confront your fears honestly, make thoughtful choices, and move forward with confidence and support. The goal isn’t to eliminate fear before taking the next step. It’s to refuse to let fear make the decision for you.

Have a question or comment? Drop us a line at info@beyondthecrucible.com

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Transcript

Warwick Fairfax:
Welcome to Beyond the Crucible. I'm Warwick Fairfax, the founder of Beyond the Crucible. You really got to make a line in the sand and say, "I will not be controlled by irrational fear. I will only make decisions based on reason." Too often we think in life, I'm not going to move forward if I don't feel like it. If I feel scared or emotional or frustrated or whatever it is, I'm going to make decisions governed by my emotions, not by logical reason.

Gary Schneeberger:
Choosing logical reason over irrational fear and acting on it. That's just one of the 10 practical insights Warwick offers in his latest blog to help you let go of fear of change and move forward. Fear of change we discuss is normal, but the key is to not let it stop you from taking advantage of great opportunities. If there's one thing you should fear, Warwick says, it's being at the end of your life, contemplating all those great opportunities you turned down because you were too scared to pursue them.
Welcome friends to this episode of Beyond the Crucible. Warwick, this is one of those episodes, and I always love doing these ones. This is one of those episodes in which you and I discuss your latest blog at beyondthecrucible.com. And this particular blog, dare I say, is not one that we should be afraid of, is it?

Warwick Fairfax:
Absolutely not. No, we shall not be afraid of this one.

Gary Schneeberger:
That's right. And you'll understand exactly what we mean by that folks as we go on here. So the name of the blog is Fear of Change: How to Let Go and Move Forward. Pretty big subject, but Warwick had some pretty big ideas when he wrote this blog, so we're going to go through those ideas, but let me ask you this first before we get started, Warwick, what led you to write this blog, which you called, as I said, Fear of Change: How to Let Go and Move Forward? What was the impetus for you to think this was something that was going to really help our listeners and viewers?

Warwick Fairfax:
It's interesting. I'm somebody that's gone through a lot of change, but yet I'm somebody that really doesn't like change. So there's a paradox. I've suffered a lot of change, but yet I don't like change. So it's sort of interesting. So just to give folks a high level view, I went to college in England at Oxford. I grew up in Australia. I've worked in New York, gone to grad school in Boston, gone back to Australia. And now since the early '90s, I've lived in the US.
So yeah, I'm somebody that I don't like change, but yet I've refused to let the dislike of change stop me from moving forward and taking the necessary steps that I believe would be beneficial to me and my family. So I may not like it, but I've always made the determination I will not let my fear of change win. I will not let that control me when I know that this next step for me and my family is the right next step. I have fortunately high perseverance and have a lot of strong beliefs in a number of things, but one is I will not let fear win. I will not. If I think it's the right thing to do, I will grit my teeth and go forward.
So this kind of led me to think what are the steps we can take to overcome our fear or dislike of change so that we can move forward in our lives and careers? Because one of the things that we'll unpack is it's easy to get comfortable where you are. Now your life may be awful or it may not be that bad. It may be okay, not terrible, but it's just, it's kind of blah, okay, where you live, where you work, and you just get comfortable. You don't like your boss, you really don't like what you're doing, but you just sort of begin to accept it and get comfortable with the uncomfortable, if you will, and you tolerate it.
And it's like it may not be a forest fire, maybe it's this smoldering discontent, but you just say, "Well, anything that could change in my life, it'll probably be worse." Sort of the Eeyore attitude to life from Winnie the Pooh of anything new is going to be bad. So if I take that new job, it's going to be bad. If I move to that new city, a new country, it'll be worse. And so let's just sit here and not do anything. And so it's really the fear of change rather than thinking of everything that could go right. We're often thinking of everything that could possibly go wrong.

Gary Schneeberger:
What you just said there reminded me of something that I read on social media from a friend of mine. So I grabbed my handy phone, which sits over here. I don't know why it sits over here because I don't really look at it usually, but I guess it sits over here for moments like this. And my friend, Jessica Stallings, hi Jessica, if you're listening and watching, she wrote this about research on worry. This was just yesterday that she wrote this.
"Research on worrying and our ability to predict the future suggests that many of the negative outcomes we worry about never actually happen. In one Penn State study, researchers found," get this number, "that 91.4% of specific worries tracked by participants did not come true." And there's another fascinating part she said, "When something they worried about did happen," and this is to the point of what we're going to talk about here in the podcast, "People often found that they handled it better than they expected they would."
And really that's what we're getting after here is that you can fear change, but if you go after change, if you embrace change, if you walk through change, you can actually handle it a lot better than you think you can, right?

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah. I mean, that quote and thought from Jessica Stallings is absolutely profound because you're right and I've heard something along these lines too when you said 91% of fears don't happen. We'll talk about fear of the boss, fear of the new city, fear of getting an apartment. It's all these fears and you typically figure out a way. It's typically not as bad. And so it's almost like it's not so much fear of what can happen, it's fear of what will probably never happen that immobilizes you. That's crazy, letting fear of the 91% rule you, the 91% that won't happen. I mean, it makes no sense.

Gary Schneeberger:
And before we go any further in this discussion, Warwick, it's interesting. We've done this a couple of times on these blog episodes, and I think it's important to do because this is Beyond the Crucible. We talk about crucible experiences and how you move past them. So because that's the context in which we're having this discussion, talk about how remaining fearful of change can lead to a crucible or on the other side of the equation can extend a crucible, can keep you from getting out of a crucible, can make a crucible last longer. In other words, why is this a subject for this show?

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah, it's a good question. I think of an extreme example of how harmful fear of change can be, or really how fear of change can prolong a crucible. I think of that classic movie, the Shawshank Redemption, and this is a movie set in Maine, I believe. I want to say it's maybe the '50s or somewhere around there, maybe '50s, early '60s, something like that. And in one case, after quite a number of years in prison, a prisoner is finally released and he can't handle being free and on the outside. And I've heard and read about this, that you get comfortable with your prison because you maybe get an hour a day to walk in the yard and get some exercise, you know when meal times are. Life is predetermined, pre-programmed. There's very little uncertainty and who wants to be in prison, but yet you become comfortable with it, you become uncomfortable with that life. And it's hard to believe that you would be afraid of getting out when you do get out, you just can't handle it, but I've heard that that's true.
So we get comfortable where we are, we get comfortable with what we know, the neighborhood, it all feels safe and familiar, but that often doesn't serve us. And years can go by and we get sort of trapped in daydreaming about the what ifs. And what if we had the courage to pursue that change in career and location? One of the worst scenarios can be you're on your deathbed, so to speak, and you're thinking about all of the what ifs of careers, people, locations, just relationships maybe you let drift, all the potential what ifs, and that is a terrible place to be. And you don't want to be endlessly saying to yourself over the decades, if only I had, whether it's asked that person out or changed jobs or moved cities, if only I had the courage, and somebody once said it's better to have tried and failed than to never tried at all.
So that's really a crucible that can actually almost inevitably grow over time if you let fear of change win. You really don't want to be that person who ... Crucibles are inevitable in life, but this is where you're producing a self-made crucible that will, with 100% certainty, get worse if you let fear of change win. Life's tough enough. Why be in a situation where you're guaranteed to have a crucible that gets work? 100% guarantee. Why would you do that? It's irrational.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right. And one of the things that you said that maybe answers that question, and I want to camp out on this for just a little bit, you say that we get comfortable where we are and comfort, it's very interesting. Ever since I turned 50, so that was 11 years ago, I've done on my birthday, a thing I put on social media about 51 things 51 birthdays have taught me. And I've done that up to 61 my age now as we're recording this. And one of the things that I have written in there, these little pithy phrases that I've gotten through the years, and I wrote this, comfort can be a cancer to us. And here's why. I'm going to read from what I wrote actually on a blog at Beyond the Crucible, that it can erode your life.
If that's what you prize, if comfort is what you prize, it's what you value, if that's what you grasp for, the only thing about living in comfort, we talk about a life of significance and comfort can be a roadblock to a life of significance. I think comfort can be something that keeps you to the point that we talk about all the time on the show that keeps you from getting beyond your crucible because you're comfortable there. That's to your point of the Shawshank Redemption, right? The comfort keeps them from moving on to a life of significance because they want to go back inside the jail. So this idea of comfort, there can be fear, but then there can also be comfort that will keep us stuck where we're at, right?

Warwick Fairfax:
It's such a profound point that you're making, Gary. Yeah, comfort is not always our friend, but comfort stops us from moving forward. It just derails our life and you create a life of misery. You really do in a sense create your own Shawshank, well, not redemption, but Shawshank prism. There isn't any redemption by fear of change. And as we'll get into, when I look at the changes I've made and the decisions I've made, I have been blessed by them. I mean, a lot of them have been good ones. Not all of my decisions have been great as you go to my website, you'll see some cataclysmically poor decisions. This podcast Beyond the Crucible was birthed out of some cataclysmic poor decisions and challenging circumstances. But when I've listened to that still small voice within me, and obviously I like to think it's from the Lord and I've taken that next step, I think of how blessed I was to take those steps of change and courage and I'm so grateful.
And that a bit like a flywheel gives me courage to take the next step. But if you don't, rather than a virtuous flywheel, you're in this negative almost flywheel of doom in which you get angry, bitter and frustrated and blame yourself, blame others. So comfort where we're not making change, we're not taking the courage to have change, it's an illusion that comfort evaporates and there's this low grade pain that then begins to be even more painful. So comfort in the sense of not moving forward, it's fool's gold. It is not comfort. It's a bit like a sugar high. It doesn't last.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah. And proof that some of the most insightful things that come out of this show come from people from Australia. It was a year and a half ago, Warwick, that Margie Warrell, your friend Margie Warrell was on the show. She had a book about courage, but she said this to us on the show and we did a whole podcast on it. "Growth and comfort can't ride the same horse," she said. And the idea that she wrote, I'm just going to read a couple of things here. "The need to reset our relationship with discomfort and convert our fear into a potent catalyst for action is critical. By practicing," what she calls, "the one brave minute rule, we are able to summon the courage to step forward, strengthening our neural pathways with each successful step, growing progressively more comfortable with being uncomfortable." That is genius from Margie Warrell and so, so tied to what we're talking about today, right?

Warwick Fairfax:
Such a great point, Gary. I mean, really Maggie Warrell is the expert on courage. That's what she writes about, what she speaks about. And that whole notion that comfort and growth can't ride the same horse. That's such a great metaphor and it's actually more than a metaphor. Margie Warrell grew up in Western Victoria outside of Melbourne and she had a tame horse at one point, but then she got another horse and from recollection, it kept throwing her. But she could have stayed on the comfortable, safe horse, but she didn't. She wanted to try the more challenging horse. And so she did, and eventually she learned how to ride it and get in control. But it's so true. You want to grow and improve and have exciting adventures. Well, growth and comfort, it can't coexist. You've got to be willing to be uncomfortable to get to a point of greater joy, satisfaction and adventure.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah. All right. So I've derailed us a little bit. Actually, it wasn't derailing. We were digging deeper into stuff, but now we'll get to the 10 points in your blog at beyondthecrucible.com. As we always do, we'll go through those. You've extracted insights and action steps that listeners and viewers can take to let go of fear and move forward. So let's run through those points. Point one is acknowledge, right? Just fess up. Acknowledge your fear of change. Step one is to just lay it on the table.

Warwick Fairfax:
Absolutely. So really the first step is admit the fact that you are scared and you're nervous that, for instance, the job won't be as great as you think it will be, and you're not sure about the city where you're going to live, or if you'll be able to afford a house or an apartment, either to buy or to rent. And you're afraid about are you going to make any friends in this new city? I mean, all of those fears, and this is just one example, the new job, the new city, can I find a place to live that I can afford? Will I have any friends? That can all feel very daunting and it's enough to make you just want to hide under the covers and just say, let's give it up and let's say no.
So really the first step is admit the fact that you might be scared out of your mind and fearful. And that's okay, it's human. It doesn't mean you're a bad person. It does mean you're human. So admit that you're scared because sometimes we think, "Oh, I'm not scared. I just don't think the job is a good fit. And I'm afraid that that city has a high crime rate or it's so expansive. And I've read that the people in our city are really awful." And you can rationalize yourself into thinking, I'm going to turn down the job. It's not about fear. I'm just making a rational choice.
That might seem a bit strange, but we often don't want to admit the fact is it's not that this is such a bad job, we're just terrified. We rationalize away our fear because we don't like to admit that we're less than perfect. And none of us are perfect. We don't want to admit the fact that we're fearful or at times we're gripped by fear and maybe at least temporarily fear wins. And so we rationalize it. Quit rationalizing, be honest with yourself and say, yes, I'm fearful. I'm scared.

Gary Schneeberger:
And proof, folks, that people who are from Australia have the greatest insights on this show. Warwick's second point in his blog addresses that very thing. If you're having trouble admitting it, point number two is list your fears. So you can't run away from that if you're writing them down, right?

Warwick Fairfax:
And in a sense, why would you want to do this? This sounds like terrible advice, right? Write down all your fears. I mean, yes, if you were fearful before, you'll make yourself even more fearful.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right.

Warwick Fairfax:
Great second step.

Gary Schneeberger:
Volume four, not fears, right?

Warwick Fairfax:
But yeah, as we'll see, there's method to the madness in a sense. So write down those fears because the first step to tackling those fears is to list them. You can't deal with a fear that you don't know what it is. It's not possible. So you want to list them. It's like, okay, in this example, I'm afraid of this new job. It's a bit of a stretch for me from where I am now. I'm not sure about my boss, my new boss. What about my boss's boss? That can affect things. What if my boss leaves? I've had friends where they get a new job and the boss leaves after six months. What if that happens? What if I don't like my coworkers? What if I can't find an affordable place to live? Okay, find a place that's affordable, but it's so noisy. I can't get any sleep. It's like a traffic zone. What if I can't find any friends? I mean, maybe you're moving from a fairly nice climate to a cold climate. What if I can't adjust? What do I do?
So just list all those fears and that is really the second step to dealing with them, but be comprehensive. It could take you a while. The list could be long, but just write them all down. And you might think of this as irrational, but some of your fears might say, well, I know it's irrational, but this is how I feel. If it's how you feel, it's your truth in a sense. It's your reality, at least within you, then write it down. Write down all your fears.

Gary Schneeberger:
And you don't have to do it to your point. You don't have to do this all in one sitting and you don't have to do it quickly. You're not in a timer. This isn't a test in school, right? It's not pencils down. You can go through it as things come to you. Keep that list with you and add to it because this is going to be a pivotal thing for you to have as you work through this process. And the next place, if you have all those things written down, then your third point is this, enter a place of calm. So you've acknowledged the fears, you've written them down. Now the fulcrum's turning and you're leaning into enter a place of calm. Talk about that a little bit.

Warwick Fairfax:
So before you can tackle those fears, you've got to be rational. If you're irrational, you will never make a good decision about anything. And if you do, it's pure luck. And as the saying goes, luck is not a plan. So let's not do that. And so you have to find a way to be calm. Now for some, it might mean praying or meditating. For me, it might be meditating on scriptures. For others, it might be meditating on some other source of wisdom. Maybe it's taking a walk in the park or in the countryside. Maybe it's going to your favorite coffee shop where sort of the ambiance and the smells and the atmosphere, whatever the place is that's your calm place where you get recentered, do that. Maybe it's an activity with a friend. Whatever it is, find a place where you can calm your soul to get to the point where you can begin to think rationally and logically because it's impossible to figure out whether these fears are real or not, or rational or not, unless you enter a place of calm. So you've got to figure out a way to do that.
And we all have different ways of doing it. Use a proven tool, proven ways that you know has worked for you over the years, that if you do this, you can enter a place of calm.

Gary Schneeberger:
Point four in this blog titled Fear of Change: How to Let Go and Move Forward is this: make a decision to be governed by reason, not fear. So that's, you've done the first three steps. Now you're going to pick fear up, set it aside. You're going to be governed by reason from this moment on, not fear. Talk about why that's so important.

Warwick Fairfax:
You really got to make a line in the sand and say, "I will not be controlled by irrational fear. I will only make decisions based on reason." Too often we think in life, I'm not going to move forward if I don't feel like it. If I feel scared or emotional or frustrated or whatever it is, I'm going to make decisions governed by my emotions, not by logical reason. So having entered that place of calm, you've got to say, "Okay, I'm going to make logical informed decisions." So while the future is unknowable, you can say to yourself, "Okay, well, before I accepted that new job, I asked lots of questions about it. I did my own independent research. I talked to others in the industry." Maybe I Googled it, looked up on various, at least for larger companies, you can look up what kind of a place is it to work, what kind of a workplace, those kind of, I think it's Glassdoor.
I mean, there are various tools that can give you some information and maybe you've networked with people that know the company. So rather than be paranoid, say, "Okay, the future is unknowable. Of course, I don't know if my boss or boss's boss is going to leave in six months or if it's going to get acquired by some other company. Naturally, I'm not going to know all that. But based on what I know, it's a good company with a good track record. It's a good job. It's a stretch, but I know I can do it, that my perspective boss seems good. I've made a rational decision to take that job." So you've got the data.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right. I can't help but think about what you said at the outset about the Shawshank Redemption. I think that perspective of, I just got out of prison, but I'm going to go back in because it's comfortable in there and that seems to fly in the face of that. And I have an example from my own life that flies in the face of that, make a decision to be governed by reason, not fear. And we've talked on the show before, you were gracious enough to have me be a guest, I think for our 50th episode. Gracious, that was a while ago, where I talked about my alcoholic past. And I remember explicitly, not necessarily, even though it was causing me all kinds of troubles, relationship troubles, work troubles. I lost jobs because of it. I lost relationships because of it. But I also had this thing where I felt that was what made people like me.
I was funny when I was drunk. I was the life of the party. I was someone you wanted to hang out with. And I felt like that the fear was I'm not going to be the same guy that people think I am now if I give up drinking. And that was reason and fear sort of butted heads for me in that space. And it was only after a couple of failed trips into rehab and failed trips at sobriety that I did indeed lean into the reasonable decision, which is don't keep killing yourself drinking, right? Get out of that and you'll find out. And it's worked out by doing that. But that's not always easy to do, is it?

Warwick Fairfax:
It's such a good example. And when you think of that fear, gosh, if I stop drinking, I won't be Gary the life of the party. But rationally, when you look at it, I mean, is that true?

Gary Schneeberger:
No.

Warwick Fairfax:
Have you become this quiet, reserved hermit without drinking? There was the fear, but what's the truth? All these decades after not drinking, what's the truth about that fear that nobody's going to like me and I'm not going to be the life of the party or like a funny guy anymore? What's the truth?

Gary Schneeberger:
None of those things were true because I think I'm pretty funny, but I still enjoy social situations. It didn't change my personality in the sense of I'm still, everything that I was, it was fueled poorly by alcohol. Now everything that I was is fueled nicely by being sober. And it's been that way for, it'll be 30 years next year. But that idea of it took me two failed attempts and two fearfully failed attempts at sobriety to get to the point that, all right, reason tells me this is the better way to live than this. So I'm going to abandon that, go for this. And thank the Lord that it's stuck.

Warwick Fairfax:
It's such a good example of this point is that fear says without drink, I'm nothing. Nobody will like me. Reason says, in your case, I'm an outgoing, kind of fun-loving person. And that's true without drink. I mean, when I was a kid, you were probably like that and you probably weren't drinking at eight years old, nine years old.

Gary Schneeberger:
I was not. I did eat pencil shavings on a dare. I did do that, but that was what you do when you're seven or eight years old.

Warwick Fairfax:
Right. Exactly. So your rational self said, look, the person who Gary is is the same person, is just better without drinking. But that inherent personality, so that was really fear, but rationally you made a decision. I will not control my fear, which makes no sense. My personality is not going to shift. It might be better, but it's not going to be worse.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah. Amen to that. Sometimes though, right when you do, the make a decision to be governed by reason and not by fear, the fears can still sort of dance along the surface. So the fifth point of your blog is tackle those fears one by one. As you move to reason, the fears may not completely go away. So how does that look to tackle those one by one as you move into step five here?

Warwick Fairfax:
So you may not be a spreadsheet person or a writer, but either one actually could be useful in this case. So you could list the fears down in one column and then say, okay, are they rational? So you listed all those fears. It could be a lot of them and then say, okay, are they rational? And so the example we just used, you've decided to take a job at a new city. Is that rational? Well, you did research on the job. It's in a great company, in a great market. It seems like it's a well-run company that actually values their employees. Your boss seems to be good. I mean, not perfect, but no boss is, but relatively speaking, pretty decent, pretty good.
And then you move on to other fears. You look at the housing market in the new city and yep, it's not cheap, you may not have found a place to live, but they are going to pay you a decent amount. And you've done enough research to say, okay, maybe it's a bit smaller than I'd like, but I think it's doable. Maybe I'll need a roommate, maybe a couple roommates. But yeah, I mean, there's a rational path, even though I haven't got the place yet, either to rent or buy. There's a reasonable chance that I can figure that out. And then maybe you don't know anybody in the new city. For people of faith, they often will look up what's a good church that's like mine in this new city. Maybe the activities you like might be tennis, golf, pickleball, or I'm reminded of my daughter in New York City who loves improv. Well, maybe there's an improv group. I mean, we all have-

Gary Schneeberger:
There's probably a lot.

Warwick Fairfax:
... activities that we like where we are. We all have hobbies, activities. Well, that's a great way to meet people. So you think about that and say, okay, I've done some research and yeah, there's some exercise classes at the gym, maybe you like Pilates or various things. It's like, yeah, this is a good gym and it's not that expensive and they seem to have an excellent Pilates class and maybe I'll meet some people there.
So you go through each of your fears and say ... The fears don't seem that bad once you've gone through that list and say, I've got a plan to deal with each of those fears. And then when they come up again, you can go, hang on, let me go back to my spreadsheet. Let me go back to my list. I've got a plan. This is irrational. I will not be controlled by irrational fears. I've been through each of those fears one by one. I've got a plan. Will things go exactly to plan? Maybe not, but there's a reasonable expectation that I'll find a solution to each one of those fears. That should give you some comfort. Whether you're feeling calm or not, it should give you some comfort to move forward in your decision.

Gary Schneeberger:
That folks was, we're halfway home because Warwick wasn't afraid to change it up a little bit from his normal seven points in a blog to 10. So we've got 10 here. Let's revisit the first five that we've been through. One is acknowledge the fear of change. Two is list your fears. Three is enter a place of calm. Four is make a decision to be governed by reason and not fear. And then what we just talked about, tackle those fears one by one. Up to the second half. Number six, make a mental map documenting both the fears and your plans to mitigate those fears. Warwick, this is the second time that you've urged people to do a little list building either on an actual piece of paper or on a computer, but then just in their mind here. Why is making a mental map so critical to starting the second half of this process?

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah, it's kind of what we've been talking about is that I do think it's helpful to write them down, find a time when you're calm and you can be rational, which most of us is not 24/7, but find a time where you're calm and rational. You've written down those fears, write down what's rational, but then write down your plans to mitigate those fears. And so if you're afraid of the job, is there something else you haven't looked at? Maybe network with people in that company that you've just met in the interview process. If there's something that you're not really sure about about that new job, let's say you've accepted it or maybe you're about to accept it. Say, look, I just have a couple more questions about the job. They've given you the job offer. Well, that new boss, he wants you. He or she wants you. They made a decision to hire you. It's okay to ask them a couple follow-up questions.
Or if you've done some research on where to live, talk to your prospective real estate agents who have places for you to either rent or buy. Maybe go on a scouting trip to that city, spend a weekend and look at some places. I mean, figure out a plan to deal with each one of those fears. And back to the example of the gym, maybe go visit the gym where they have a Pilates class and talk to the Pilates instructor. You might not have moved there, but it's going to help you with these fears. Write down those fears, write down what's rational and write down what is your plan to deal with those fears. What next step are you going to take? And then make those next steps.
It's amazing how when you get more information, you talk to that Pilates instructor, you talk to your prospective boss. It's like, "Huh, I was afraid about A or B, but it looks like that's really not an issue." I was thinking no way could I find an affordable house, but I talked to that real estate agent and they said, yeah, it is pretty expensive in the city, but there are some pockets that are actually not too bad if you're willing to take some places a bit older, still well-built. It's maybe not in quite a desirable neighborhood. It's still reasonably safe. Maybe you need a couple roommates, but it's like, okay, this has now become mission possible. So don't just get weighed down by your fears, make that metal map and make some plans to mitigate those fears.

Gary Schneeberger:
Point seven is this, and it's interesting. It's the second time, point four, you said make a decision to do something. Point seven, you say the same thing. Because it's hard, right? We're dealing with fears that we have. So you have to decide as you go along and you have to decide more than once. Point seven is this, make a decision that you've made good rational decisions based on evidence for your choices. How does that fit in as the next step? What do you have to do there?

Warwick Fairfax:
We're coming back to this in a sense because you've listed your fears, you've listed whether they're rational or not, and you've made a mental map documenting both those fears and your actual specific plans to deal with those fears, whether it's, is this a good job, you've talked to the boss, there are activities you like, like for instance, going to the gym, you've met the Pilates instructor, you've talked to them, you actually have plans to deal with those fears. At that point, you can say to yourself that I have made a good rational decision to, in this case, take that job and move to that city because I've gone through all of my fears and I have specific plans to deal with each of those fears. And those are evidence-based plans. I've done some research, I've talked to people, so I know I've made a good rational decision.
And you might still have some butterflies, but at this point you're further along the path to saying, this is a good decision. I've done the work. I will not be controlled by fear and I have evidence to counteract that fear. I can say fear, you were wrong and here's why. Instead of the courtroom of your own soul, if you will, you've got maybe the prosecuting attorney is fear. Well, you've got the defense attorney for rationality and common sense that said, "No, fear your case is wrong. I've counteracted each of your arguments one by one by one." And you know the judge is going to rule in your favor because in a sense you are the judge. So yeah, at this point it helps to say to yourself, I've made a good decision. I've done the work. I've looked at the fears. I've got plans to counteract those fears. I'm making a rational evidence-based decision.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right. And then after you've made the decision, point eight, so critically important, rest in that decision. Why is that important and why is that sometimes hard?

Warwick Fairfax:
At a certain point, you've got to say, yes, this is the right decision and not endlessly second guess yourself. It's a time for reflection. And as listeners and viewers know, I think of myself as a reflective advisor. So I know how to sit and reflect and think of endless decision trees and what could go wrong and hopefully some of what could go right. So I get being reflective, but a certain point you've got to say, look, I've mapped out the fears. I've mapped out whether they're rational, I've mapped out actual plans to mitigate those fears and deal with them. I've made a decision to make a rational evidence-based decision and I'm going to rest on that. It's the right decision. I'm going to let it go. I'm not going to endlessly think about those fears or even endlessly think about all the different methods to mitigate that.
It's like enough. I'm going to move on to other things in my life. There are other things going on other than this job decision. I'm going to rest in that decision. And if fear crops up, which it tends to, go back to that place of calm and tell those fears that you're unsound, you're irrational and you have no hold of me.

Gary Schneeberger:
And that leads logically to point nine, which is to move forward. So you've made the decision here in your head. Now you can't see my feet, but I'm pointing to my feet. You got to do it with your feet. You got to move forward now, right? Talk about that a little bit.

Warwick Fairfax:
So at this point, you've got a plan, you've figured out the fears, you've got to be rational about dealing with them. You've got a mental map of how you're going to deal with those fears and the different avenues you've got to explore. Well, it's time to put that plan into action. So accept the job, reach out to real estate agents. If you haven't already, take it to the next level saying, okay, I want to come, let's say a few weeks before I'm due to start in that new job. And I want to look at apartments, houses to rent, to buy, and I'm going to do it. That could be with your spouse, significant other, friend. It's sometimes beneficial to have a friend to help. And I've got to look at gyms, churches, tennis places, whatever your interest is. I'm going to network and I'm going to join the gym, sign up for that Pilates class.
I mean, just if you're visiting, maybe there's a bit of a wait list. Okay. I'm going to make sure that that first week or two after I'm there, there are things I'm actually going to be doing. And just make those plans, begin to organize the moving arrangements, move forward. The more you move forward, it's like a flywheel. Each decision on taking a job, looking for a place to live, finding a place of interest like a gym, it will help you reduce your fear because you're moving forward. Those irrational fears maybe won't evaporate, but they will become small. So move forward, that flywheel of hope increases speed once you begin to take each small decision.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah. I feel like I'm contractually obligated from my own personal experience to say here at this point, and you said it a little bit as you were talking about point nine, this can still be difficult. Moving forward can still be difficult. And what's interesting about, because we're talking about, the blog is called Fear of Change: How to Let Go and Move Forward. Fear is a difficult taskmaster to bury. And I'll use an example from my own life. I've talked on this show before about when I moved to Hollywood to market films in Hollywood. And I've never talked about this to you before, Warwick, but I moved there from a Christian ministry focused on the family out to Hollywood to market Christian films. But still Hollywood, not the same as living in the bubble of a Christian ministry.
I moved out there and when I got out there, it was paradigm rattling for me to the point, Warwick, that I called my old bosses back at Focus on the Family and asked if I could come back in the first three days because I was just so terrified and so convinced that this was the wrong choice to make. All those things that I did, the first eight points, the first nine points, I moved forward. I moved from Colorado to Los Angeles. Still, the fear has a way of creeping in. And I tried to crawl back to what was familiar. And thankfully, while they were open to saying, "Yeah, sure, come back." I talked to enough people ... I'm skipping ahead a little bit to point 10. We'll get there in a second. I talked to enough people who solidified my resolve, but moving forward, not necessarily always the easiest thing to do. Those fears can still come back peskily poking at you, can't they?

Warwick Fairfax:
It can be like three steps forward, two steps back, or maybe two steps forward and three steps back. Yeah. So that's real life. But what's interesting in that example is you were anxious and fearful to the point of wanting your old job back, but ultimately you didn't let fear win.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right.

Warwick Fairfax:
What made you not let fear win ultimately?

Gary Schneeberger:
Because really, I didn't have all of this to follow that you have laid out in the blog, but I had done all of that. I had gone through, I'd met the bosses, I'd met the people who worked there. It was something I always wanted to do. And all it takes at the end of the day, folks, is for your courage to be just that much higher than your fear. If you have that, it's going to be okay. And I guess that's what happened for me. My courage, my stick-to-itiveness was that much more powerful than my fear. I think that's what kept me there for sure.

Warwick Fairfax:
But it sounds like, maybe not to this degree, but intuitively or more, you'd done the work, you knew it was a good opportunity in a good company. The bosses seemed reasonable. You knew I have made a rational decision to leave Focus on the Family and go to Hollywood. It's rational. So you're able to tell yourself these fears. I mean, sometimes there's a grain of truth in there somewhere, like it's Hollywood with a different culture, but you knew in your heart of hearts, in your soul, this is a rational decision. This is not stupid. It's rational. You knew that. And that helped the courage outweigh the fear because you knew it was rational.

Gary Schneeberger:
Oh, for sure. It was not only was it rational that helped do it, but it was also, it was divine in the sense that I felt like God was calling me there. I mean, who am I to get in the way of that, even my fear to get in the way of that? So I'm glad I stayed for sure, because that would've been a, "Hey, I'm out in LA. I moved out here. I drove the U-Haul for three days and I'm here." And then I would turn around and come back home. So that isn't part of my story. And you're right. It was because I worked through these processes and I was able to go back, from moving forward, I was able to go back to point eight and rest in the decision of moving forward and I was good.
So let's get to the point I said I was hinting at when I said I had some friends who talked me off the cliff there. Point 10 is this: ensure you have fellow travelers to support you. Always important when we're going through crucible experiences, right?

Warwick Fairfax:
It surely is. And in this particular case, if it's a big decision involving a new job that could stretch your abilities and your location, it's so important to have fellow travelers who are with you along the journey. Don't just call them when you're about to jump off the ledge. Have them involved in any step of the process, at least put it this way, certainly with the time you're about to move forward, they should be up to speed at least by that point, maybe even earlier. And so you say, look, I'm afraid of this big move. And in your particular example, it's like, I don't know. And your friends would say, "Well, hang on, but Gary, you told me that this is a great opportunity. You said how the bosses seem great, this company seems wonderful. Yes, Hollywood's going to be a bit of an adjustment, but you said you were kind of looking forward to a new experience because you like adventure and this could be fun."
So they go through one by one the fears and what you told them. So what they're doing is they're repeating your own words back to you. You can't disagree with yourself. I mean, you could, but that wouldn't be very rational. It's like, well, I know I said that and it's true, right? Because you believe what you said, they're repeating back your own words. And they're like, "We'll be with you. If you need us to conceptually kind of visit you in the first few weeks, yeah, we'd be happy to visit you for a few days." And that's not unthinkable. It depends on the situation, but the very least they're a phone call these days, a Zoom call, FaceTime call away.
So that can help take you off the ledge, so to speak, and reduce the pangs of fear because they remind you it was a rational decision to take that job. You've already got some leads on places to live. The new boss seemed reasonable. You found communities of interest like the Pilates class at the gym. You've done all of that work. It's rational. And they can, in a sense, talk sense in you by really repeating your own words back to you. That is so helpful. It's like, okay, this is rational. They brought me back to my sane self, not my fearful self. They brought me back to my courageous logical self. And so having fellow travelers is so important. And mostly what they're doing is they're just repeating what you told them. They might have their own input, but a lot of it's, this is what you said to me. Is that still true? Well, I guess it is, yes.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah. Folks, we have just gone through Warwick's latest blog at beyondthecrucible.com. Fear of Change: How to Let Go and Move Forward. But we are not done with the discussion yet because while the co-host has been blathering on a little bit about his experience with some of these issues, the host and founder of Beyond the Crucible has not had a chance to really talk a lot about what those things are. So Warwick, I'm going to ask you, you said it at the outset, you've had your fair share of experience overcoming the fear of change you said. So talk about those times and how you got through them.

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah, it is interesting. I'm somebody that doesn't like change, but yet I've had a lot of change in my life, pretty radical in one sense in terms of jobs and places that I've lived. So when I was not yet 18, I was still 17, I finished high school in Australia and I went to university at Oxford like my father had done. Now this is going to the other side of the world, about as far away from Australia as you can get at a very young age, knowing nobody, going to Oxford University, one of, at the time for me, unfortunately, one of the top universities in the world, I say unfortunately because that's going to be intimidating. I always did well at school, but it's a bit like going from the minor leagues to the major leagues. This was another level. So in that sense, I wouldn't say it's a rational fear because I always worked hard, but there was a lot of things to be fearful about. And so that was one instance.
Another, after I graduated from Oxford, I got a job in banking at Wall Street in New York City. And again, initially I knew nobody. I was to meet people after six months or more, but initially I knew nobody. It was very lonely. Then I went to Harvard Business School in Boston. That was a different challenge. I mean, you had some of the brightest people on the planet who were very articulate and driven and that was pretty daunting too, a lot of work. Then when I went back to Australia, at least I would say, it's funny, I was in Boston and I was thinking that my father had died in early 1987, had a few months left at business school. The stock price of the company was going up. The market felt it was in play. The company was in play. I felt that as my parents had, that management wasn't doing a good job and drifting from the image of the founder.
So I was making plans even while I was at business school to launch a $2.25 billion takeout of the family company because the time difference between US East Coast and Sydney, I'd do my work at business school during the day and I'd be on the phone to advisors at night. It was a crazy situation. There was a lot to be afraid about. What if it doesn't work? I mean, what do I do about all of this? I mean, it may not have been the right decision, but it felt like it was. So we won't always be 100% accurate, but yeah, that was certainly challenging.
Three years later in 1990, after the company had too much debt and we faced an economy with the recession, the company went bankrupt. Well, then I moved to the US. How was I going to find a job? Failed media, former media mogul. It was pretty difficult, but it was the right decision. So we did that. I was married by then to my wife who's American. We met in Australia. So then I ended up working in finance and business analysis for an aviation services company. It wasn't an ideal job, but I could do it well. But then I made a decision to shift because I felt like I was playing small, I was comfortable, but I felt like I wasn't using all my skills and abilities. And so then I wound up becoming executive coach that ended up leading me to write my book, Crucible Leadership and then founding Beyond the Crucible and this Podcast.
So each of these shifts in my career and life, they were very different, but they were all very challenging. I mean, going to Oxford and still not, 18, that was very challenging. So I've lived a life in which I may not like change, but I've never let fear of change hold me back. I always have this mantra in life, you do the right thing no matter what. Well, in this case, going to Oxford, I really, part of the story which I've mentioned before, Oxford, Wall Street, Harvard Business School was to give myself some skills to play a significant contribution in the family company. That was really the rationale.
So from that standpoint, it was a logical decision to go to Oxford if I could get in, which fortunately I did. So I always have not let fear win. Okay. I'm afraid about it, but I didn't obviously deal with this whole mental map thing, but it's the right decision and I'm going to do it. So fortunately I have pretty high perseverance and once I make a decision, I know it's right. Most of the time I will do it. I refuse to let fear of change control me in my whole life.

Gary Schneeberger:
One of the things we say all the time on the show is we can't compare crucibles. We should more often say we shouldn't compare educational background because every time you go through Oxford and Harvard Business School and all this stuff, I just feel like a dope. I mean, you really have accomplished some great things.

Warwick Fairfax:
Well, thank you. But humility is also important because just because I've done these things doesn't mean I'm better or worse than anybody else. You've got to be humble about it and say, look, I had all this education and I still made a cataclysmically poor decision to launch a $2.25 billion takeover. So did the education help me? Not so much. But I'm still gratified that I have it, but still you can still make stupid decisions irrespective of your education.

Gary Schneeberger:
Amen. That's true for all of us. All right. We always end these episodes, me asking you what's the one truth, the one important thing you'd like listeners and viewers to take with them as they depart this episode?

Warwick Fairfax:
So it's easy to focus on the fear of change and all the things that could go wrong in a shifting career or location. As you rightly said, according to that study, 91% of those fears are rational, but yet the fear of the unknown is powerful and so is the comfort of the familiar. I'm used to being in the Shawshank prison. It's a prison, but I know when I'm going to get meals. I've got my hour walking in the yard. I know when the lights are going to go off. Everything's very predetermined. There's not a lot of unknowns in that sense. But comfort is just not the way to live your life. We need to focus on why it is that we're considering the change. What's the rationale? Why do we make that decision? Why do we believe that decision is necessary?
In my case, I felt that I wasn't using all my skills and abilities that the Lord had given me in that aviation services company. So I made the decision to shift. It was a logical, rational decision, and so I made it. It was one of the better decisions I've made in my life. So you don't want to let emotions or fears control you. And one of the things I often think is if you have to fear something, fear the what ifs. You don't want to be on your deathbed, so to speak, thinking if only I've taken that job, I'll move to that new city. If only. That I took the safe route, the scared route, the fearful route, and you'll begin to feel bad about yourself. You might have felt bad about yourself for decades knowing you should have made that decision, but you didn't, you chickened out. If there's something to be afraid of, be afraid of those what ifs by not taking that courageous decision. That's actually, if there's a logical fear, that's it because inevitably that sense of the what ifs or the road not taken, it will grow and gnaw away your soul.
So think about if there's a good kind of fear, the fear of not pursuing the change coupled with the conviction that this change is the right change, this decision is the right decision to make. You've done the research, you've got all your fellow travelers saying this is the right one. You've researched the new job, you've talked to the boss, you're looking at places to live. Maybe these are a few that seem, ones you can afford. You've signed up for Pilates classes at the gym, whatever that happened to be or communities of interest. You've made a rational decision and just move ahead. Don't let fear of change win. But if there's one parting thought is, don't wait till you feel like it. When are you ever going to feel like going to the dentist or going to the hospital? You're never going to feel like, oh, that's a fun thing to do, but you do it because it's necessary. It's a logical right decision. And so you don't let fear win. So don't let fear win. Make the right rational decision.

Gary Schneeberger:
Right now, Warwick, the right rational decision for me is to ask the reflection questions that you always put at the bottom of your blogs. And the first one is this, list the fears you have associated with the change in your life, such as a new job in a new city. So whatever those fears may be about whatever that situation may be that you're thinking of changing in your life, list those fears down. Write them down. Second point of reflection is write down the plans you have for tackling each one of those fears. So if you write down 23 fears, give at least 23 things that you're going to do to counterbalance those fears. And then the third point of reflection is resolve that you've made a good decision in deciding to take the new job in the new city. It is a rational choice and you have a team of fellow travelers who have your back.
And I'll say before I end, that proved true for me, folks. That reflection right there is the key to a lot of what we've been talking about here today. So until the next time we're together, folks, remember that we do know crucible experiences are hard. Goodness gracious. You've heard Warwick talk about his, you've heard me talk about mine. You know that we know that they're difficult, but we also know this, and that is that your crucible experiences are not the end of your story and they don't define you. They can refine you because if you learn the lessons of those crucibles and you apply them to your life and you move forward one small step, one small right step at a time. The destination that you can be carried to is the best destination you'll ever reach. And that's this, a life of significance.
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