
Helping Heroes Heal from Moral Injury: Judy Isaacson Elias
Warwick Fairfax
January 21, 2025
Judy Isaacson Elias’ traumatic childhood was caused, she says, by the traumas her father brought home with him from his service in World War II. Her dad was withdrawn, struggled with job stability and connecting with his family. The dysfunction in her home led her to run away and turn to alcohol and drugs.
But a trip to Israel her father arranged for her led her to reconnect with her Jewish faith, and the healing she felt in doing so would decades later give her an idea to help other veterans like her father who suffered from what has come to be known as moral injury.
She founded the Heroes to Heroes, a program that equips struggling veterans with a life plan that incorporates all aspects of well-being, with spirituality as a cornerstone for ongoing support and belonging within their communities.
“The miracles that I’ve seen here are just phenomenal,” Elias says. “The reconnection to faith is just the most beautiful thing to watch. My belief is once you heal from within, all the other healing is easy.”
To learn more about Heroes to Heroes, visit www.heroestoheroes.org
To explore Beyond the Crucible resources, including our free Trials-to-Triumphs Self-Assessment, visit beyondthecrucible.com.
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Transcript
Warwick Fairfax:
Welcome to Beyond the Crucible. I’m Warwick Fairfax, the founder of Beyond The Crucible.
Judy Isaacson Elias:
If I’m going to work with vets, I’m going to solve this problem. All of a sudden it started, it became a mission. And I don’t know how in so many ways, how much control I had over this mission and whether I was able to say no.
Gary Schneeberger:
That’s our guest this week, Judy Isaacson Elias talking about the moment she found her calling after a tough upbringing that lasted well into adulthood, as you’ll hear her explain, the trials began due to the moral injury her father suffered because of what he experienced during his wartime military service. The nonprofit she founded, Heroes to Heroes helps traumatize veterans like her dad. How? Keep watching.
Warwick Fairfax:
Well, Judy, thank you so much for being here. I love what you do with Heroes to Heroes. Just working with veterans has been through so much, they’ve seen so much, and you talk about moral injury, which I’d never really heard of before. So I’d love to explore a bit more about that. But before we get to it, I’d love to hear a bit of the backstory because whenever we talk to people, there’s often a reason behind the passion they have for serving others. There’s often an origin story. And it seems like there is for you, Judy. So just talk a bit about how you grew up and your dad and just some of the themes that led you to do what you’re doing now.
Judy Isaacson Elias:
Yes. There’s so much to it. I grew up in a tough household. We’re three daughters. My father was a World War II vet. Second day Normandy, battle of the Bulge. He liberated a concentration camp and in many ways he never came home. Our family structure was just tough. Okay. I will say many people would dream to be in my situation. We weren’t impoverished. We didn’t have extra money, but we functioned. But emotionally, it was very, very difficult. People say to me, wow, I miss my father’s smile. I miss his laugh. I don’t remember my father’s smile or laugh. He had a tough time just being out of military. And at the time it was buck it up, move forward, put on your best shoes and get to work. And times were tough in the house. Growing up with my sisters was a challenge. I’m a middle child. And I ended up rebelling. There was some mental illness in the house and I couldn’t function with it. I really felt sorry for my dad. I made friends who were interested in alcohol and drugs and going down the wrong path and typical teen stuff, but I started taking it a little too far.
I’m from a Jewish family and my parents were very connected to their faith to a point. And everything became about you have to do this, you have to do that because of God. Not even necessarily because of God, because of being Jewish. I didn’t get it. I didn’t understand my faith. I didn’t understand what was going on in my house, why it was so chaotic. And I checked out and I did everything I could to get away. I went to stay with friends. I didn’t want to be with my family. And I kept in touch with my father. And at one point he said to me, “Would you go to Israel?” And I said, “I’m not interested. I don’t want anything to do with my faith or Israel.” I was gone and I felt there was no way back.
And at one point my father said, “Look, we’re going to take you. We found some money. We can send you on a pilgrimage to Israel with a group of teens. Would you go?” And then he said, “Would you go for me?” And I said, “Oh boy. How can I say no?” In my 16 and a half year old way I said, “All right, I’ll do it.” And in my head I said, “Well, there’s no drinking age. I’m going with a bunch of people my age. I’ll find a reason. I’ll find things to do. We’ll have a good time.” The next thing I know, I’m in Jerusalem where I am right now as I’m speaking. And it was the day we were going to the Western Wall. And it’s interesting I’m having this conversation because about five hours ago, I was at the Western Wall today. And I said to my friends, I can’t go. This is too hard. I have cursed God. I’ve been so bad, I can’t face it. And my friend said, “Look, you’re Jewish. We’re in Israel. You’ve got to do this.” And I literally had tears rolling down my face as I’m going to the wall and I was shaking. I said, “I don’t deserve this. I’m not worthy of this.” And my friend said, “You got to do it.”
I went up to the wall, I put my hand on that wall and it was like my whole life came together. I just said, “Wait. I’m not alone and I must have a mission. I must have a purpose. I’ve got to do this.” And I came home and I started getting more … Just being active in my faith. I decided to keep kosher, which is something, being Jewish, it made me know who I was every minute of the day because I had to worry about what I ate. And I started getting involved more and more in my faith. I got married. We decided to raise our kids to be Orthodox Jews, which at the time I really didn’t know what it was. Okay. Welcome to a real world here. But in that house I recreated my childhood home and I was walking on eggshells and I was scared to be home. I don’t feel at times I was the best parent because I didn’t know how to … I didn’t have a role model. I didn’t know how to be that mom, that loving mom. But I worked hard and I pushed at it.
I went through a difficult time because my marriage was not a good one. And I was again here I recreated the afraid to be home, walking on eggshells in my house, afraid I was going to do the wrong thing. And in the meantime, I had a very big career in media. And so I would go out during the day, be a strong woman, come home and turn into someone else. So again, I started to run and I started to just … Took a job where I was traveling and just be out. And in 2001, my father passed away as a result of a car accident on his way to a Jewish war veterans meeting. And I said, “What’s going on?” His friends all came to the funeral. I still have the flag. And one of his friends said to me, we were so surprised your dad went this way. We thought he would go in his own time and place. I was shocked by it. And I said, “I don’t really know what he’s talking about. I don’t get it.” And I just parked it and moved on.
And in 2009, I was invited to Walter Reed to visit our soldiers. And when I walked into that hospital and I saw our soldiers there, and I looked in their eyes and I said, “There’s something going on. I’ve got to do something as a mom, as someone who’s been through some stuff.” In many ways, they look like me. And I said, “Let me help out.” And I started volunteering at veterans organizations. I liked some of what I saw, but there was a lot I didn’t like. And one of the things I saw, people were doing what I had been doing as a teen, which is send them for a weekend, go out drinking, go out partying. Yes, everybody feels better. It’s a great time. But then you go home. At 22 suicides a day I saw we were not solving this problem.
So I said, “I’m a problem solver. I’ve got to …” And in many ways I was working on myself and I didn’t even realize it at the time. So I thought back to when I was 16 years old and I said, “Wow. What if I took veterans who were struggling and struggling with just this pain …” And I didn’t know it was called moral injury. It was a gut feeling. What if I took them and helped them find their faith and help find them connection? Would it help them the way it helped me move forward? And I thought how I had moved very much forward but not forward enough to where I am now. And it is a growth process.
But I started studying suicide and I was looking at the research and I’m going, why would somebody do this? On my darkest days that never even occurred to me. And when you dig deep into suicide research, it seems to come to two things. People need a sense of belonging and a sense of faith. And then as I started looking at this, it started coming together and helping them, first of all find that connection to faith and find a sense of belonging. And I found with me, I had found my faith, I hadn’t yet found my sense of belonging. And so it all came together at that moment in 2010. I said, “Wow. That’s what I’ve been looking for for the past …” At the time, 50 years. Was that sense of belonging. You know what? Maybe this is what I needed to do. And that’s how Heroes to Heroes started.
Warwick Fairfax:
That epiphany you had at the Western Wall was pretty amazing. It felt like it changed your life. You found hope amidst the challenges you grew up with. It seems like as we sometimes say you found an anchor for your soul. So do you feel like there was a before the Western Wall, Judy and an after the Western Wall Judy and you were just a fundamentally different person?
Judy Isaacson Elias:
There definitely was. Before the Western Wall, Judy was … I don’t even know if I really thought things through. I think there was a lot of that teenage, how do I feel for the moment? What am I doing for the moment? And there was no, where am I going? There was no self discovery. There was no stopping and thinking. Probably, when I think back, it was too much for me to process and there was no one to reach out to. So no adult in the room in many ways I could say, “Wait a minute. I need your help with something.” And that was not something I was taught to do. I didn’t have access to that that I knew of. I probably did. There were probably adults there who would’ve said, “Hey, I’m happy to hear you.” But I didn’t know how to get there. When I think about that with teens and people in general, that’s something that I work on very hard helping people understand that I’m there.
So there was that part. And then after I felt like had a foundation and I had something to strive for and I had something. I felt like God was with me now all the time. That I wasn’t alone. That as I was making these decisions, even if they were decisions that were just little steps to move forward, I felt like I was going to be okay.
Warwick Fairfax:
It’s the sense that you belong and that God cares about every intimate aspect of your life. He created the stars and the heaven. He created the heavens and the earth that there is a God that actually cares about Judy and every aspect of her life and that you belong. That’s a transformative experience.
Judy Isaacson Elias:
It made all the difference in the world. I was able to go to college. I ended up spending my junior year in Jerusalem here at Hebrew University. And I was able to take chances that were really good life choice chances instead of, you know what, let me just do this and see what’s going on. I was able to look at things and go, I wanted to help other people. I thought I wanted to be a social worker and I wanted to work with adoptive children. And I don’t know why at the time. And I think back to that, it’s not a passion for me now, but at the time that was a passion for me. And there were just no jobs there for a BA in social work. When I finished school, I ended up getting into media and building a career and liking that.
But there was always something richer in my life. And I think that’s what my faith did and my connection did for me. It broadened my life. It made it richer. And as I started getting more and more observant and observing the Sabbath and observing the holidays and building a family around that, I started seeing how rich my life was and how many experiences I had that were really good positive … I no longer had to go drink. I no longer had to go to a rock concert. I didn’t have to go to all these events to get that high anymore.
Warwick Fairfax:
You had this inner peace, this inner belonging. You may not have known where God had have you go in the course of your life, but you felt like there’s a purpose, there’s a direction, and that gives you some sense of tranquility.
Judy Isaacson Elias:
It is. And it’s like, I guess like a landing pad. If something was going on and I had a … I don’t know. I had a very tough marriage. So there was that space I could get to and I could say, “All right. You know what? The kids are all right. We’re doing well. We’re having a nice Shabbat dinner together. We’re enjoying the holiday. We’re just experiencing the greatest things in life together.” Which is the family and a place where my kids are happy. They felt safe at home and I never had that as a child. So being able to give that to them and that peace. But I started growing and growing with it, and then my kids got older and moved out and my marriage got very, very difficult and I started going backwards and that was scary. And that was around the early … Finally, I left in 2016 and it took me a couple of years again of self-discovery, but I had the basis, I had the foundation. And I was able to say, “Okay. This is what I’m looking for. I’m looking for that peace.”
I never had a home until I moved out, had my own apartment where I felt comfortable 100% of the time. And I said, “If I’m going to ever do this again, get married again, I want to be able to have a home that feels like this, where when I walk in, I’m not walking on eggshells and I know I can do it.” Six months later, I had my first female team travel to Israel with Heroes to Heroes, and I accompanied them. And one of the young women from Israel, she had been an IDF soldier, she was a veteran. She volunteered for the program. And she turned to me on the last day and said, “I’d like to introduce you to my dad.” And I said, “I don’t mix business and … I don’t know.” And she said, “No. I think you two are a lot alike.” And I said, “You know what? I’m going to take the leap. I can have faith. I can build up that faith.”
My husband and I just visited her with our fourth grandchild from her. We have been married for going on six years and it’s been the greatest experience of my life. We have this beautiful, safe, peaceful home. And he decided in his retirement to study to become a rabbi. And he ended up getting ordained about a year and a half ago. And we have this just rich house of just the two of us, our dog, Benji and God, and it is fabulous. And it’s just been a wonderful experience. And now he works as a chaplain. He volunteers, he works with me as a chaplain for Heroes to Heroes. And he works with our vets. He’s an Air Force vet, so he has been in the military. He understands. And we’re building this incredible, incredible life together that I feel like I conjured it up in a dream.
Warwick Fairfax:
So I want to shift to what you do with Heroes to Heroes. It’s interesting as you talk about a very successful and at one point, Morgan Stanley and then media negotiated for advertising and agencies. I think you said you were doing great and working with some great people, but yet it felt like there was something missing. I think you’ve said something like it was fun and lucrative but not fulfilling. It seemed like there was a hole in your heart and your sou. It wasn’t terrible. I think you’re maybe close to 50, but it felt like … It’s almost like a conversation with God saying, “God, I’m doing fine, but I think I want more.”
Judy Isaacson Elias:
I don’t even know if I was consciously seeking something, but I think I was. I don’t know. I don’t know if I didn’t have the confidence to do it or I just was thinking about it. But when I was in Walter Reed, all of a sudden I was like, “I have to do something.” And it overpowered me. And I just went. And I’m the type of person if it needs to get done, I’m a problem solver. Solve the problem. I believe that life is about solving problems. If you solve them well, you have a great life. If you don’t solve them so well, life is not going to be as fun. If I’m going to work with vets, I’m going to solve this problem. And all of a sudden it became a mission. And I don’t know how much in so many ways, how much control I had over this mission and whether I was able to say no.
And I remember when I took the first team of vets. In the beginning I thought I would just take them on that journey to Israel and I would take teams of 10 or 12 vets on this journey to Israel, have some IDF vets meet them and have them go through what I went through. And that’s how it started. And after the first one I said, “Maybe I’ll do it once a year and it’ll be like a hobby. This’ll be like my heart hobby.” And then when we went and they kept saying to me, I feel at peace for the first time. I feel connected. I feel like I belong to … They were saying all the things that I started to feel, but they were even further along than I was, especially at 16. And I said, “Wow. I better do this again. I’ll do it another year.”
Warwick Fairfax:
So what about those first trip or two made them feel connected, that they belonged?
Judy Isaacson Elias:
We take a lot of vacations. Going to Israel is not a vacation. It’s a journey. And a lot of people are scared to go. And I’m not talking about terrorism or wars or whatever’s going on now. Because right now all the kids are in school, people are shopping, people are out and doing things, and we’re hearing bombs are flying every minute. Okay. Thank God right now we are enjoying every minute here. But going to Israel causes everyone to confront some of the toughest stuff. It’s that God relationship, which is one of the toughest relationships to build. And I know I work on it every day.
And so when our vets came here for the first time … And I’m seeing it right now. We have 30 here now. And on Monday … I guess it was Monday … I don’t know what day of the week. The first day we were here, one of the things they did was get baptized in the Jordan River. Now that is an intense, intense experience. And they’re learning about Jesus and his life and why he spoke the way he spoke and who he was and what his life was like. And watching them grow, it’s not easy to be here and not ask yourself a few questions. Yes, there’s a fear of terrorism. Yes, there’s a fear of war. I think in many cases there’s a bigger fear of that relationship. And what is it going to do to me and how is it going to change me, change my spouse, change my child, whomever it is we’re with? It’s scary. Because the air is different.
I went to the western wall today, my four-year-old granddaughter wrote this note. She was upset we were leaving. So her mother said, “They’re going to the Western Wall. She had been there in April. Do you want to write a note to God?” And she wrote, “Thank you. I love you.”, and drew him a picture. And today I did a video of me folding it up and putting it in the wall. And I said, “Now Hashem is going to read it. He has your note.” And I sent the video home.
Gary Schneeberger:
Warwick asked Judy about the specific ways Heroes to Heroes helps veterans overcome moral injury after these words from our sponsor.
Judy Isaacson Elias:
It’s intense. For me because I’m here so much, it made going to the wall so much more important, crucial. That was a connection that my granddaughter is going to see throughout her life. She now has a video of that note. So it’s very life-changing and every time I come, I learn more and I get more connected. And one of the things I’m working on is my personal connection to God, which we call bitachon. And it’s the trust and it’s the faith.
Having these conversations with these vets. We talk about God, we talk about faith practices. We talk about things that … We actually work with them through the Hebrew Bible to teach them about repentance and paths to repentance. Because as Jews, we repent twice a day. And my husband met with a team today, and one of the questions was, well, how do you repent? And my husband gave a very wise answer. I’m going to paraphrase it. I can’t quote it directly, but he said, “We repent at the end of our lives.” And they said, “So what does that mean?” And he said, “We never know when the end of our lives is so we repent every day. And on Yom Kippur we have this special day.” Right now we’re talking about forgiveness in the curriculum while they’re in Israel. Last night their assignment was to write a letter to God. And we actually have a published book of some of the letters to God. And I would say to your viewers, if you haven’t written a letter to God, write a letter to God. Because what you will learn about yourself and where you are and your struggles when you lay it out … If you lay it out and God knows what you’re looking for and you’re willing to accept his guidance, you make it easier for him to help you.
Warwick Fairfax:
So what you do is with these veterans are so profound because psychology, lots of things can be helpful, but so much as you talk about moral injury, it’s this war within the soul, it’s self-hatred or what did I do or what did I not do and what did I see? And it’s just things that obviously you would understand better than I. But to really link this to faith, maybe it seems obvious, but it seems revolutionary. And what I find fascinating is obviously you have veterans from different faith backgrounds, some Jewish, some Christians, Catholic, Protestant, there’s different nominations obviously within-
Judy Isaacson Elias:
We’ve had Muslims-
Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah. You have people of all sorts of different backgrounds. But I find it fascinating that you have different, probably pastors and ministers, rabbis, imams, you have people to help reinforce the faith backgrounds that people came from. That seems a pretty radical idea. So somebody coming from the Jewish faith, for instance, having pastors or people that can help people reconnect to their Christian faith or maybe even more radical to help Muslims collect to their Muslim faith. At least from a Jewish perspective. So talk a bit about that because that’s mind-blowing. Why do you do that? It sounds amazing, but not everybody would do what you’ve done if you follow.
Judy Isaacson Elias:
I don’t know. Personally, I don’t think it’s extraordinary. I think it’s dealing with people where they are. And faith is so important and life is so important. And God created each one of us. One of the things that veterans need to understand and people who before they get to a place of suicide of even that thought, our life was given to us by God, and it’s not up to us to take it away. And one of the things that we were put on earth for and we were created for is to be God’s servants. And if we do something like take our life away, we’re stealing from him. And to build that, to build that connection is so important. About 80% of the vets we work with will say that they believe that God wishes they were dead. Okay. Now, how do you wake up in the morning when you feel that way?
I know in my faith, the first thing we do when we wake up in the morning before we say good morning to our spouse is thank God for giving us another day. We have a prayer we say. It’s 12 words every morning. It’s called the Modeh Ani and it’s thank you for giving me another day, for giving me my soul. And we don’t give enough time, we don’t give enough credence to fixing a soul. When people go to war and these moral injuries, the shame and guilt, those are soul crushing. So we’ve got to fix that soul. And what I find is it doesn’t matter whether the soul is Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu whatever. It’s about that connection to God and that belonging and that faith and just giving everyone that opportunity. Israel has it for everyone and Israel becomes our tool. But our 12-month curriculum starts with values.
And values are so important. Identifying values. We talk about faith values, we talk about living a life of values. And if faith is one of your top three or five values, how do you live that life of faith? What are the steps you take? Often one of the things that is a challenge, I know in Christianity what I’m seeing is there are not a lot of action steps. In Judaism we have to watch every food we eat. Friday night we have … What we wear. The clothes we buy. Everything is … We have 613 commandments. There’s something about everything in there. We can’t just walk into any restaurant. We can’t walk into restaurants. My kids go to McDonald’s only when they’re in Israel and find a kosher McDonald’s. We don’t have the world open to us like that. We’ve got to look at everything. And on Friday, what time is the Sabbath? We’re preparing for the Sabbath, we’re preparing for holidays. It’s constant.
One of the things we talk to the vets about is how do you make Sunday into Sabbath? You were given this day. So tomorrow night is Friday night, it’s our Sabbath, and for the first time we’re going to show them what it’s like to observe a Shabbat. So tomorrow night, they’re going to go to the Western Wall because they’re going to see what it’s like to bring in Shabbat at the Western Wall, the Sabbath. They’ll come home and my husband and I are going to show them what it’s like to have a traditional Shabbat the Sabbath dinner. Friday night dinner. There’s a blessing we give our children. Every single one of them will get that blessing. My kids, they’re in their 30s, I still call them and they get their blessings each week or they’ll call me to get their blessings. One of my sons, because of the schedule, we’re not going to be able to speak tomorrow. He called me last night. He wanted his blessing. So when parents bless their children, what we’re saying to them is, you are my blessing. You’re so important to me.
Warwick Fairfax:
So just talk about just with these veterans, they’ve been through moral injury and it seems like a key to them stopping with the suicidal ideation and forgiving themselves is to anchor them in their faith and beliefs. And maybe there’s a little bit of theological work there. In other words, whether it’s Judaism or Christianity, God is a loving God. He’s a forgiving God. Doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences for actions or inactions, but here’s a God that forgives and wants to bless us. Obviously theology looks slightly different on Judaism and Christianity, but the concept is the same. So it’s like God is not a vengeful God that will never forgive. So it’s part of helping them unlearn poor theology. Whether it’s Judaism or Christianity for that matter, if that makes sense. It’s a tough thing to understand God does love you. There is a purpose, and at least on our podcast and the stories, very often God will use what you’ve been through to help others.
I think of the story of Joseph in I think Genesis 50. Something somebody said to me when I lost the 150-year-old family media business, which was not about the money, but just letting down thousands of people and family members. It was a very difficult thing to get through. In the story of Joseph at the end of Genesis 50, it says something like, they made it for evil, but God made it for good. And the sense that God had a plan. Joseph might have understood about being sold into slavery and somehow being pharaoh’s right-hand man, basically prime minister. And there was a plan. And so just the sense that God can use your worst moment to help others. Whether it’s Judaism or Christianity, the concept is the same. Helping them understand that this is horrific, but God can use this for good. You can help others. And when you help others in my own life, and I’m sure in yours, there’s a certain redemptive level of healing. Doesn’t make it all go away, but it’s like, okay, what I went through the tough stuff with my dad and my first husband and all, and some of the mistakes I made, God used all that to help redeem my life and help redeem other people’s lives. Does that make sense?
Judy Isaacson Elias:
Right. It’s so important. And I think people ask me, what would you have changed? And I say nothing. I needed to go through those struggles. And I was blessed with going through them young. And as an adult, the struggle I had as an adult with my marriage, it was something I needed to go through because it helped me understand who I needed to be in a marriage, what my role was and what marriage I wanted and how to be that partner. And we talked to them about God gives us tests. He gave Abraham 10 tests. Abraham was the first one. He had no one to look back and say, “Hey, is this a test?” So here we are and we go through these tests. So let’s enjoy those tests. They’re going to be tough, but let’s really learn. And instead of going over my head, I’m done. What are we being told? Start listening. It’s about listening. What is it?
Gary Schneeberger:
It’s interesting for me hearing you talk and how excited you get talking about what you do with Heroes to Heroes. And I’m rewinding to when you’re in the media business, I’m suspecting that you’re not quite as excited when you’re talking about that back then. There’s an excitement in what you’re doing now. And I think that speaks to you … What Warwick alluded to earlier about how your career was fun and lucrative when you were doing that in marketing and in media, but it wasn’t fulfilling. Your quote goes on to say, “Founding and building up Heroes to Heroes required all the skills I had and more. Having the opportunity to redefine my life as a life of service at the age of 50 and continue to learn and develop has been a gift.” So I want to ask you this question because you talked, Judy, early on about the crucibles you faced as a child. Your home wasn’t a safe place. And we’ve come to call what I just described there as a quiet crucible. Is this all there is crucible? Of those two kinds of crucibles that you’ve experienced, which has been the one that you’re most grateful for you have moved beyond?
Judy Isaacson Elias:
Oh, you got me there. I would say, I think the family situation. Getting beyond that, having that house, having that home … Not house. I’ve just lost my microphone. But just learning what it’s like to have a peaceful home. Getting my peaceful home. And I think that all comes together with what I’ve learned from our veterans too. And helping … So many things I have in common with the veterans we work with is the pain at home. That’s the one thing that a lot of us have in common and a lot of people have in common. And finally being at a place where I love being home. And our home is open. When any of our alumni, we call our family … Oh my gosh, probably 600 plus vets at this point. When they’re in the neighborhood, come for dinner, come for family. And I think getting to that peaceful home, I think it’s the most important thing I’ve done in my life. Because from a peaceful home, everything is possible.
Warwick Fairfax:
It makes you so grateful. In some way I can identify … Again, listeners know this well, growing up in this large family media business, my dad was married three times and my mother twice. I was from the last marriage of each. And there was certainly in our family in general and my family, there was some level of challenges, dysfunction, what have you. It comes often with money. So I’ve been blessed. My wife’s American. We met in Australia. We’ve been married I guess 35 years this year. I have like you three adult kids, early 30s, into 20s. And I tell my kids just how blessed they are. Because they have a wonderful mother. They have just a loving family. It’s like, who wouldn’t want to come home? I am not so much talking about me, but our family. Of course they would. But when you experience the power and money and the infighting and the rivalry between different factions in the family, it just doesn’t matter who’s right and wrong. It’s inevitable with money from my perspective, it makes what you have feel like such grace.
Neither of my parents were overly religious in that sense. My father had a sense of God, but was more ecumenical. That was my choice. Not because somebody told me I needed to do it. So it just makes you appreciate your home, your faith when you see your kids living it. All my kids have gone on mission trips. My daughter’s doing child life at Mayo Clinic, which is with kids of parents who have cancer at all. They have a heart and a set of values. So just when you’ve experienced things that are different, put it this way, it makes you appreciate what you have. You don’t take it for granted.
Judy Isaacson Elias:
That’s right.
Warwick Fairfax:
From my perspective, every day, my wife and my family, at least from my theology … I say, “Thank you, God. Thank you, Jesus.”, every single day, many times a day. I don’t know. Maybe I’m an observant Christian in some sense. It’s not because anybody tells me to do this, but because I want to thank God. I am so grateful. It’s not a theory, it’s a lifestyle if you will.
Judy Isaacson Elias:
And in so many ways, that’s what it is. I think I’m doing something because people need it and it’s work. Look, it’s work. I’ve got to raise funds. And I deal with nitty-gritty and 990 forms and the IRS and all that stuff. It’s all part of it at the same time.
Warwick Fairfax:
It must be so fulfilling in some ways you could say you’re in the soul work. You could even say … Again, this might be misunderstood. You’re almost in the saving souls business in the sense. Not overtly religious-
Judy Isaacson Elias:
And I talk about it and I say, I’m in the God business. I’m in the God business.
Warwick Fairfax:
You’re trying to heal souls because they’re so broken. Nobody could love me. No God could love me after what I’ve done or what I’ve seen. You’re trying to rebuild people’s souls brick by brick, because if you can’t love yourself or if you don’t think you are worth loving, you won’t be able to love anybody else. You just hurt everybody.
Judy Isaacson Elias:
And do you know that’s where the self-destruction comes in. And every relationship goes, and the divorce and the problems with children. And I saw it with my father. It was so easy for him to check out. But in so many ways. I felt loved by him. I felt loved there. It just wasn’t demonstrated. There was a lot of pride. The first time my name was in the newspaper for one of the radio station promotions I got, he carried it around in his wallet and showed all his friends. So it was those little things where I said, that’s where the love comes from and that’s why I love the guy so much, because that’s an easy way for him to do it without saying it.
Warwick Fairfax:
In a sense, maybe it felt like given what he’s gone through, he’s doing the best he can.
Judy Isaacson Elias:
Yes. And I felt that way.
Warwick Fairfax:
He’s trying in his own way.
Judy Isaacson Elias:
And he was just a wonderful, good-hearted person who was very humble. We were lower middle-class people. I never felt like I was missing anything. I’m not a materialistic person. I don’t care how much money I have. I don’t need things. I’m not a things person. I love to bake. For me, it’s feeding people in so many ways is love. My kids come and there’s a freezer full of baked goods, and then there’s whatever favorite meals they’ve had. I’ve learned to hear people and give them what they need. Not what I want to give them. When I’m with children, my grandkids, it’s what they want to play. It’s not what I want to play with them. That’s how I work Heroes to Heroes. It’s what they need.
And people say to me, you’ve got on this journey 40 times, how do you deal with the same door? I learn something each time and I learn from the people. And each time it’s different because each group is different and their needs are different. My husband and I will go into their team meetings and they can ask us anything about Judaism. And some of the discussions are really interesting. And I’ve learned so much about Christianity. I’ve learned about Islam. I’ve learned about Mormonism, Latter-day Saints. Church of Latter-day Saints. I didn’t know much about that. And it’s been such an education. One of the things that comes out of the research on our organization is that people feel they’re more connected to everyone else in the world because we do share more. We do have more in common than not. Especially when it comes to faith. There’s monotheism. In many ways we’re all the same. We’re looking for that connection. We’re searching.
Gary Schneeberger:
On the subject of giving people what they need, I would be lying, Judy, if I didn’t say, I feel like we need to give you some time in Israel, and it’s a lot later where you are than we are here in the States. So this’ll be where I would normally say captain, turn on the fasten seatbelt sign. We’re starting to descend to land the plane. We’re not there yet because Mr. Fairfax has a couple of more questions I think he wants to ask you.
Judy Isaacson Elias:
Okay. Great.
Warwick Fairfax:
Well, yeah. Thank you so much, Judy, for being here. It’s such a blessing what you’re doing. You are in a sense, saving souls. You’ll try to patch them back, broken fragment by broken fragment to rebuild the inside. The souls of people, which is incredible. I guess one way of looking at it is you might meet a veteran for the first time, or maybe it’s somebody else who’s just broken in so many ways and they might feel like nobody should like me in biblical times. I might almost feel like a leper. Unclean, leave me alone. Put me out at the edge of towns, which they used to back then. They might feel like a leper. That nobody should love them. God couldn’t love them. What do you say? What in that initial conversation to somebody that feels so broken and so not worth loving by anybody else or by God? What’s that initial conversation you have with them?
Judy Isaacson Elias:
Hello. We’re here. What can I do? I’ll start with them and just say, “This is who I am. This is why I’m doing what I’m doing, and this is who we are and I would love to have you part of it.” And then just so much of it taking away judgment and just accepting people where they are and who they are. I’m a very curious person. I want to know how everything works. I’m still trying to figure out radio waves. I just cannot figure that out. Stuff like that. And I was in radio for so long and I don’t know how it gets from there to here. And I want to learn that. But I’m also very interested in people. One thing, it’s just leading with love. Leading with our hearts. And I think we tend to lead with our brains. Let’s think things through. That’s for other things. But in our day-to-day relationships, and especially working with a population that’s struggling and people who are struggling is, I’m here and I’m not here to judge. And I don’t care where you were last week or where you were 10 years ago. Where are you now? And it’s okay.
I remember that book, gosh, years and years ago. I’m OK – You’re OK. He had something there. Being okay with people’s faith, with their choices. It’s their choices. It doesn’t affect my life on a day-to-day basis. And it’s not being threatened by other people’s choices and what’s going on in their lives. And it’s hard. And one of the things that I have a challenge with is I tend to take on a lot of the stuff. And I have to just stop myself from doing that and just say, “Okay, Judy, you can’t be broken all the time. You can’t take their issues on.” It’s just really accepting people and just letting them know that you’re there and whatever they say, you are not going to be the one to judge.
Gary Schneeberger:
I have been in the communications business long enough to know, and the final word on the subject has been spoken. And Isaacson, our guest, just spoke it. So until we are together again the next time, folks, please remember … You heard it here in this conversation. We understand crucible experiences are tough. We talked about Judy’s experience, Warwick’s experiences, and the moral injuries that the veterans, the Judy, helps what they’ve been through. We understand how difficult this is, but we also understand something equally important. And that is they’re not the end of your story. Because if you learn the lessons from them, if you do the soul work, as Warwick often says, and you move with intention, guided by your values to another destination where that destination will take you, that destination you’ll go to is the most rewarding one of your life. And that is a life of significance.
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