Burn the Ships 4: From Crucible Leadership to Beyond the Crucible #153

Highlights

• Crucible Leadership’s backstory (4:58)
• How the vision for Crucible Leadership grew over time (11:28)
• The birth of Warwick’s passion for leadership (16:13)
• The ways Warwick’s vision has morphed over time (20:06)
• The importance of the Second-Act Significance series (22:49)
• Blog Point No. 1: We wanted to make clear we don’t just serve business leaders (24:45)
• The “barrier” created by Crucible Leadership (31:57)
• Blog point No. 2: We wanted to emphasize our pivot from primarily telling Warwick’s story and the stories of other leaders to helping you live out yours  (33:28)
• Our data that reveals the prevalence of crucibles (37:09)
• Blog point No. 3: We wanted to offer you more and deeper opportunities to interact with us (44:59)
• Warwick’s final thoughts (50:42)

Transcript

Gary Schneeberger:

We’ve seen so much interest in our special 23% off offer for our e-course, Discover Your Second-Act Significance, that we’re continuing it throughout February. The three module video course will equip you to transform your life from, “Is this all there is?” to, “This is all I’ve ever wanted.” Each session is led by Beyond the Crucible founder Warwick Fairfax, who shares his own hard won successes in turning trials into triumphs.

And he’s got some high-powered help, from USA Today’s Gratitude Guru, to a runner up on TV’s Project Runway. From a recording artist with a Billboard number one album, to a couple of bestselling authors. It’s an ensemble of men and women living significant second acts, who would command a six figure price tag if any business wanted to fill an auditorium with them to coach their employees.

But we’ve packed their insights and action steps into our course for a sliver of that cost. And if you act before the end of February, you’ll get 23% off your enrollment. Just visit secondactsignificance.com and use the code, “23FOR23”. So don’t delay. Enroll today and remember, life’s too short to live a life you don’t love. Now, here’s today’s podcast episode.

Warwick Fairfax:

Welcome to Beyond the Crucible. I’m Warwick Fairfax, the founder of Beyond the Crucible. By saying Crucible Leadership, it created a barrier potentially. People might think, well, I’m not really a leader. And we can say, well, actually, everybody that has a vision coming out of their crucible is a leader because it’s, as you said, leadership from the boardroom to the living room. And we can say all that, but you don’t really get through the wall of people’s thinking, of people’s perceptions.

You say Crucible Leadership. I’m not a leader. So we don’t even get to have a conversation because they stop there, and if they don’t get in the door, you can’t really have a conversation. So Beyond the Crucible, more help people understand, okay, this is about getting beyond my worst day. Got it. So the word Crucible Leadership from a branding perspective, more than just branding from allowing people to receive guidance, assistance, help. The word leadership created a wall that maybe some people might not go through because, oh, I’m not a leader. That’s not for me.

Gary Schneeberger:

If you’ve been listening to our special winter series, BURN THE SHIPS, about men and women who’ve had the courage to pivot from safe and in many ways steady lives to new adventures that bring them satisfaction and significance, you’ll know why we’ve turned the microphones on ourselves this week. It’s because we’ve made our own pivot, changing our business name from Crucible Leadership to the name of this podcast, Beyond the Crucible.

While as we explain the change is more a remodeling of our ship than setting it ablaze, it does indeed signal an expanded vision that speaks to our new focus and the new inspiration and action steps, we can offer you as you embark on your journey to turn your trials into triumph.

Hi, I’m Gary Schneeberger, co-host of the show. Warwick and I talk in detail here about the benefits of the new name, including more precisely articulating our desire, to offer hope and healing to not just business leaders, but to anyone in search of insights and tools to make sure that their worst days don’t define them. You’ll learn all about it here and in the new blog at beyondthecrucible.com.

Warwick Fairfax:

Anybody that owns a home will know that over time you actually have to remodel. You replace your roof every 20, 30 years, maybe you need to replace some flooring, carpeting. Things don’t last forever, and remodeling is part of life, for at least many people.

Gary Schneeberger:

Yeah. And in many cases it happens because your family expands. It happens because you’ve perhaps moved and you have to remodel the home that you’re in because it no longer exactly fits where you’re at in life. And that’s what’s happened as I get ahead of myself. That’s what’s happened from Crucible Leadership to Beyond the Crucible. So stick with us listener. We’re going to get into the details of what we’re talking about and how that came to be.

So it’s like, if you remember Prince, he changed his name and he became The Artist Formerly Known as Prince. We’re going to talk today about the brand, formerly known as Crucible Leadership and where it’s at now as Beyond the Crucible. But what we’re going to start is where we always start, when we talk to guests and that is, what’s the backstory? But it’s not of a person this time, it’s of that brand. It’s of that brand, Beyond the Crucible. What was the formation that had started as Crucible Leadership?

So Warwick, you’ve talked a lot about your backstory, you’ve talked a lot about your history, you’ve talked a lot about those things. But what was the impetus for starting what was then called Crucible Leadership?

Warwick Fairfax:

Yeah. It’s a good question, Gary. I mean just, I know listeners know this, but just to level set us very briefly, the reason leadership was my passion was because I grew up in this 150 year old family media business, started by my great-great-grandfather, John Fairfax in 1841. Grew to be a massive $750 million 4,000 person media company, newspapers, TV, radio stations, magazines.

Had the Australian equivalent of the New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal. Massive company. Dad died in early ’87, fresh from Harvard Business School. I launched a $2.25 billion takeover later in ’87. Prepared my whole life to go in the family business. Undergrad degree at Oxford. Worked on Wall Street. Harvard Business School. All to fulfill what I saw as my duty. And my parents and I felt the company wasn’t being well managed and run along the ideals of the founders. So hence with my naive, idealistic crusader mentality, launched this couple bidding dollar takeover.

And of course things went wrong from the start. Family members sold out. They didn’t believe in me or my vision. Who wants to be in a company controlled by a 26 year old. Stock market crash in ’87. Too much debt. Three years later, despite bringing in new management and increasing operating profits, the company went bankrupt. So that’s actually one of the briefest versions of my story I’ve ever told.

So where Crucible Leadership came from was obviously for many years this was a tough thing to get over. I felt like I’d let my family down. Parents, employees, even God for some strange way since I was a believer and the founder was a believer and I guess I felt like there was some plan that I botched which little simplistic theology on my part.

Anyway, ’90s were not easy years but come around about 2008, the pastor of my church asked me to give a talk in church about my story. So I did. And what was amazing is weeks, months after people said, “Warwick, your story and the lessons learned, it really helped me.” And as I often say, I don’t think there were any former medium moguls in the congregation.

It’s one thing to talk about cancer, abuse, physical challenges. They are sadly all too common. There will be people in any given audience that can say, “Yeah, me too. Thank you. You made me feel heard. You made me feel seen. Thank you.” This is not a common story. So that led me to think about writing my book. I never wanted to write a tell-all saying, “Oh is me. I was right. They were wrong, because that’s lame and boring,” and it’s against my values.

I just refused to do that. But if I can write a book anchored by my story that will help people, then I felt called to do it. It took years to write, years to get it published and writing about your worst, most painful days is not easy. After a couple hours, I was done. So that was what happened.

So I wrote this book, Crucible Leadership: Embrace Your Trials to Lead a Life for Significance. That’s a tagline at the bottom, which says, at age 26, he launched a $2.25 billion takeover bid that failed. What could have broken him, set him on the road toward significance. So it’s always been about significance, but I felt called to write a leadership book.

So this book is anchored by my story, but it’s got stories of my dad and, John Fairfax, my great-great-grandfather, the founder, stories of historical leaders and inspirational and faith leaders. And it’s all anchored around key principles of leadership. So you’ve got chapters on authenticity in the embrace your crucible section, and then finding your purpose. Chapters about faith and character and values.

You’ve got chapters about vision, shared vision, how to get a group of people on the same page, listening more broadly, seeking advice from a few, organizational leadership, how you cultivate an environment where people thrive and are encouraged and implementation. It was all around leadership. That was my original passion, was how to help leaders at all levels be the best leaders they can be. And often the secrets of great leaders is the lessons they learned in their darkest days, whether it’s Abraham Lincoln on the Civil War, Winston Churchill, Prime Minister of Britain in World War II. Severe crucibles test a leader, and those who have the potential for greatness, it makes them greater leaders.

So it was all about leadership and how crucibles can be catalytic in helping leaders become greater leaders. So that was the original vision of what we do here.

Gary Schneeberger:

And in the context of a series that we’re calling BURN THE SHIPS, I want you to do something for me. I want you to hold the book up again. So that book, Crucible Leadership: Embrace Your Trials to Lead a Life of Significance, is what led to the launching of the ships for Crucible Leadership. In a very real sense, that book is the bottle of champagne that you used to crack across the boat to get it going. That was the inspiration. That was all of the information that came out when Crucible Leadership was brought into being.

But we learned some things. You learned some things as we went through the initial days. A lot of things changed from the time that you gave that speech in church, to the time that you then decided you’re going to write the book, to the time that you found a publisher to publish the book. And then the time that creating the… I mean, lots of things changed. Talk about those a little bit because what it speaks to is what we talk to on this show a lot, and that is the expansion, the growth of a vision, the progression of a vision.

Warwick Fairfax:

The brand Crucible Leadership, if you will, grew. We write blogs, you and me and sometimes others. We post on social media regularly. Podcast grew, which has been, I don’t know, is it a third year? It feels like it’s a while now, isn’t it?

Gary Schneeberger:

It started four years ago. Yeah.

Warwick Fairfax:

Wow.

Gary Schneeberger:

Four years ago.

Warwick Fairfax:

Boy, time flies.

Gary Schneeberger:

It’s like that, isn’t it? Its like that.

Warwick Fairfax:

Exactly. So amongst other things, I’m a certified executive coach, so I really enjoy questions and interviewing. And you, Gary, just a former life, have had a lot of experience on radio and newspapers so it just was… And we’re complementary, have different personalities, different gifts, but I’d like to think we’re a good combination.

Gary Schneeberger:

I would agree.

Warwick Fairfax:

Thank you. So the book, the blog, social media, the podcast, and now we have an e-course, Second-Act Significance. So it was originally a book and then well, to promote the book and get it published, you need a brand, you need a following. And then it’s like, well, another way to tell good stories is through a podcast. So the brand and the vision, it definitely expanded from just a book. It expanded into a number of different activities that we do.

Gary Schneeberger:

And as those things have gone on, there’s been some consistency. We want to make sure that people understand that even though we have remodeled the ship that was previously known as Crucible Leadership, we’ve remodeled it, added some decks, changed the way that, added coat a paint here and there, even though we’ve changed the name of Crucible Leadership to Beyond the Crucible, before we get into what those differences are, let’s talk about what the similarities are that still remain. And that is, you discovered and shared in your book some key principles. Those key principles about both how to lead others in a professional context and how to lead yourself and your day-to-day life. Those remain. That’s in the hardcore DNA of this brand that you built regardless of the name that’s attached to it, isn’t it?

Warwick Fairfax:

That’s a very good point. Authenticity, being truly who you are, that’s something for leaders or for individuals is important. We talk a lot about, young people sometimes feel the pressure and stress to be who their parents, friends, teachers want them to be. Maybe go be a doctor, lawyer, what have you. And we talk about just being authentic to who you are.

We talked about living in light of your design. So if you love the arts, for instance, just going to be an actuary in an accounting firm, nothing wrong with that, but why would you do that? Even if your parents maybe had some small accounting firm for instance, or some insurance, brokerage, it makes no sense. So living in light of your beliefs and values, it could be a religion, philosophy, way of thought. You want to be true to who you are. You want to have a vision that’s unique to you. I mean, there’s a team of fellow travelers to help you implement it.

So what applies to an organization or a leader of a large organization is true for individuals. So those principles such as authenticity, character, beliefs, vision, they haven’t gone away. And we’ll talk with this being a bit of a shift, which we’ll talk about, but some of the core elements in the book are still true.

Gary Schneeberger:

Absolutely. And there’s still much for people who are in leadership positions and organizations to glean from Beyond the Crucible. But there’s also been some addition. It is not an either/or leadership or self development. It’s a both/and. Both of those things are robustly discussed, robustly revealed in the way that Beyond the Crucible is now moving forward.

All right, so we’re talking a lot about a change, from being almost exclusively at least referring to ourselves as being about leadership, talking about leadership, about giving tools for leaders, to this shift to Beyond the Crucible, which expands that base. But before we move on to that, it would be, I think really instructive for listeners to know this question. And I don’t know that anyone has ever asked you this as directly as I’m about to, and that’s this. Where did Warwick Fairfax’s passion for leadership come from? Where did it start? How did it develop? Why is it there?

Warwick Fairfax:

So part of my passion for leadership was almost inherited. It was my duty in a sense to lead this large company. I guess really where I felt like I was being thrust into the front lines, if you will. My dad was removed as chairman by some other family members in 1976. And then my future role was, it was imminent. It felt imminent even though I was 15 at the time. Oxford, Wall Street, Harvard Business School, and even as a teenager, people would ask me, “Well, what is it you want to do in life?”

Some people at that point they might say, fireman, policeman, maybe they say, yeah, I’d love to be a concert pianist or I’d love to, I don’t know. Work in advertising, maybe gets a little bit more defined as you start getting into your late teenage years, you have some clue about what you want to do. But I always answered this in a strange way. I said, “I want to be a general manager.” How many kids say that? None.

You’d be, I’m going to be an actuary. I’m going to be a general manager. I’m going to, I don’t know, whatever it is. But the reason is because I felt general managers were people that cared for and encouraged people. That’s how I viewed it. So in my mind’s eye, and this is going to sound a bit silly, I saw myself even as a teenager one day being a leading position in the company, as it then it was John Fairfax Limited, giving speeches to the employees. Not other people, but the employees encouraging them. Telling them that they mattered, creating an environment in which they could flourish and succeed and be respected.

So leadership to me was about creating an environment where people could be encouraged to be the best they could be within their gifting and flourish and succeed. It was all very altruistic. It wasn’t about profits and business visions and goals, it was none of that. It was about having people be cared for. So when you understand that the shift is maybe not as surprising since I’m all about helping people, maybe individuals, be the best they can be, and now obviously overcome crucibles, overcome setbacks and failure.

Gary Schneeberger:

And it’s so interesting to hear you talk about you were 15, and you wanted to be a general manager and this is what you thought a general manager did, this is how you envisioned it. Fast forward to the start of Crucible Leadership, that’s what your book does. That’s what you have aimed to do with this business is to encourage people, to care for people. We talk about it all the time. Hope and healing. We are dealers in hope. I’ve heard you say, if I’ve heard you say it once, I’ve heard you say it 200 times. That life trajectory maybe got bumped off course a little bit, but you’ve stayed on it for sure.

Now that you’ve said that, and I’ve set this up, that vision from the outset for leadership that’s morphed. Even the leadership components of Crucible Leadership, that’s morphed over time. How has that happened? In what ways that maybe listeners either have seen and haven’t pulled all the balloon strings together or they haven’t seen. How has that morphed over time?

Warwick Fairfax:

Yeah. We’ll get into more detail here in a moment, but at a high level, what happened to us and to me is really a good example of how visions tend to morph, expand, be refined, and that’s what happened. You’ve got to listen to your inner voice, to the spirit, to God, whatever your construct is. And what happened in particular as we recorded podcast episodes, some were leaders, some were just individuals, and we weren’t just recording stories about leadership crises. Some were very personal tragedies, which will get into.

We began using words like, you are not defined by your worst day. That wasn’t a phrase that existed in the then Crucible Leadership lexicon before we started recording podcasts. It just came out of our discussions with guests. And we found that it was very personal. How do individuals overcome their worst day setbacks and failures? It could be their fault or it could be something terrible that was done to them. How do they find drops of grace, drops of redemption? To use that pain for a purpose, to often out of the ashes of a crucible have a vision that would help others?

Now, yes I suppose you could call it leadership in some ways, but it was really more the focus whilst on organizations or management or creating shared vision and what have you that’s in the book. The focus is on if today’s your worst day, how do you get out of the pit and redeem some of the pain that you’ve been through in a way that helps others, which we call a life of significance. So basically the change was already happening without us realizing it. It was happening organically in large part because of our discussions on the Beyond the Crucible podcast.

Gary Schneeberger:

And one of the things I think that really sticks out for me that really expanded that vision was the Second-Act Significance series. The idea that crucibles aren’t always these devastating big headline – you and I both have newspaper backgrounds – there aren’t always this 87 point type headline of some tragedy that’s happened to you. It’s a more internal tragedy. It’s what we’ve come to call a quiet crucible. It’s that, is this all there is moment. I can be doing more. It’s your cubicle moment. I’m playing small. There’s something else that I can be doing.

Those things again, they were not in the original vision, but as we walked out the vision, as you walked out the vision, those things stuck to you like, let’s keep talking about ships. Like barnacles to a ship. As the ship’s going through the waters, they clung to you and we kept talking about them and talking about them and the time came to formally do what we had been doing informally. And that was add a little bit of breadth into this vision that you hatched that was working so well.

So it is truly not an either/or from leadership to personal growth, it’s a both/and. Absolutely, there are things in Beyond the Crucible for leaders of organizations. There’s also things in there for people who are trying to lead their families. A phrase I came up with, way at the beginning, Warwick five years ago, that we haven’t used much, but leaders in right from the boardroom to the living room. That turned out to be a little prescient in the sense that it’s not just about business leadership, it’s also about life leadership, leading yourself, helping yourself be resilient, moving that way through those kinds of things.

So all of this, I should have said at the beginning, and I didn’t, but you mentioned blog a few minutes ago and I’m like, oh, all of this is tied to a blog that will soon be, if not already on the Beyond the Crucible website, beyondthecrucible.com, will be there shortly. Which discusses exactly what we’re talking about here, why the change in name and what you, the listener to this podcast and the reader of those blogs and the engager of the content that we offer, what you can get from it.

So that blog will unpack a lot of what we’re talking about here today. And just to show that those of us who work at Beyond the Crucible, go through crucibles continually, I’m not looking at my phone because I’m not paying attention, I’m looking at my phone because this is where the blog lives right now because ice storms have knocked out my power at my house and I can’t print it out. So I’m going to go to the blog here on my phone.

The blog is all about, as we’ve been talking, this not burning the ships so much as remodeling the ships. Why did we remodel? And there’s three points Warwick that we wanted to talk about. And the first one is, we wanted to make clear, that we don’t just serve business leaders. Again, it’s not that we don’t serve business leaders, we do, but it’s a both/and, it’s business leaders and its personal development. We have to your very excellent point that you’ve made as we’ve been talking, we’ve expanded the vision. How has that developed and what’s exciting to you about that development, about that expansion?

Warwick Fairfax:

Yeah. I mean it’s well said. I mean, yes, we’re happy to in one sense serve individual business leaders, but we’re less focused on organizational leadership, which is important. And there’s definitely some of that in my book, Crucible Leadership. But we’re really focused on individual leadership and just through the stories on our podcast Beyond the Crucible. We really focused on stories of redemption, of forgiveness, people forgiving themselves, forgiving others, which of course as we say does not mean condoning, learning the lessons of their crucible. How do you bounce back from your worst day and lead what we call a significance of life on purpose dedicated to serving others.

So really we’re not against business leaders and helping them, but we want to make sure that we want to help every individual who’s been through a crucible or as we’re saying Second-Act Significance is feeling stuck, and is going through, and is this all there is moment? Want to help them get through those setbacks and challenges, to have a life that’s flourishing and feeling with joy and fulfillment, which we believe is ultimately what we call a life significance. Again, a life on purpose, dedicating serving others. So we wanted to help people realize, it’s not just about leaders of large businesses and organizations. We want to help all people get beyond their worst day and live a life of significance.

Gary Schneeberger:

And the thing that sticks out for me on that front of a guest who had a physical – she was not a business leader, she had a physical crucible – but the lesson that she shared is something that the head of a Fortune 500 company can apply to his or her own crucible experience. And that’s Stacey Copas who said of her becoming paralyzed when she dove into an inground pool, and even though she wasn’t supposed to when she was young, she did it anyway. She became paralyzed.

She came after some serious crucibles, drug addiction, just being listless. She viewed what happened to her as a gift, because all the things that developed in her personal life and how she was able to build some new ships wouldn’t have happened without that. I think that lesson is true. That lesson can apply to people going through a divorce. This is a gift. I can learn something from this that will make my life better moving forward. That’s true both for the individual, who’s just trying to live life day-to-day to the business leaders trying to lead 10,000 people in a company, isn’t it?

Warwick Fairfax:

Yeah. It’s such a good point, Gary. I mean, Stacey Copas, this Australian woman who dove into a pool and was diagnosed, as a quadriplegic? I’m trying to remember back then.

Gary Schneeberger:

Yeah. It was a paraplegic, I believe.

Warwick Fairfax:

Yeah, paraplegic. Yeah. So that was just amazing because to say what she went through is a gift, I think what she means is, nobody wants to go through something like that, going through that level of crucible. But yet within the pain there is a gift, maybe the hardest, most painful gift you’ve ever received, but it’s something that can make you a better person.

It really focused her on her priorities and it made her a different person as a coach, as a consultant. And a number of folks since have said that and it made me, I guess, grow and expand and refine my own thinking about my own life. We’re talking about a vision, expanding, refining and growing. And I never would’ve said a few years ago, maybe not even a year ago, what I went through was a gift. But now you said what I went through was a gift and it was in some senses I’ve said deliverance, which is a word I didn’t use until about a year ago from almost the bondage of a family business when I was being somebody that I wasn’t. I’m now free to be who I am and from my perspective who God designed me to be.

It was a hard gift, but I love what I do now with Beyond the Crucible and trying to help people in every way we can. But yeah, crucibles, they can be a gift, if you allow them to. And that’s something that we learned from listening to folks. So that’s one of the things I love about Beyond the Crucible is we’re continuing to learn and grow, not just the brand, but our own personal knowledge. Just from listening to people’s stories.

Gary Schneeberger:

And what that means in the context of this series, BURN THE SHIPS, we’ll call it for this episode, *remodel the ships, because we didn’t burn any. But we’re remodeling it. It’s artwork you can use to hang on your walls to remind you of those waypoints that you’ve found out there. What Stacey Copas said, that was a painting you hung on the wall of your ship as you kept moving forward because that’s a reminder of that truth that applies to business leaders and to individuals.

Before we move on to the second point of the blog, is there anything else Warwick that you want to add about this? The first point here that we wanted to make clear that we’re not just about business leaders, we’re about personal development as well.

Warwick Fairfax:

Yeah. No, other than to say just by saying Crucible Leadership, it created a barrier potentially. People might think, well, I’m not really a leader. And we could say, well, actually, everybody that has a vision coming out of their crucible is a leader because it’s you and as you said, leadership from the boardroom to the living room. Now we can say all that, but you don’t really get through the wall of people’s thinking, of people’s perceptions.

You say Crucible Leadership, I’m not a leader. So we don’t even get to have the conversation because they stop there. And if they don’t get in the door, you can’t really have a conversation. So Beyond the Crucible, more help people understand, okay, this is about getting beyond my worst day. Got it. So the word Crucible Leadership from a branding perspective, more than just branding, from allowing people to receive guidance, assistance, help, the word leadership created a wall that maybe some people might not go through because oh, I’m not a leader, that’s not for me.

Even though you and I have a different definition of leader, then perhaps some might, some people think, leadership just means leading a big organization, big company, big nonprofit. That’s not me therefore, Crucible Leadership can’t help me. So there was a perceptual barrier that the word leadership, as much as I believe in leadership and good leadership, that perceptual barrier I think could have prevented people from coming in. That was a big reason for the, or one of the big reasons for the shift.

Gary Schneeberger:

So the second point in the blog is this. We wanted to emphasize our pivot from primarily telling Warwick’s story and the stories of other leaders, to helping you live out your story, listener. That really is a critical pivot, that it’s beyond just telling stories. We tell stories, but we also offer true aids to help you as you go forward.

Those things have just developed organically as to your point, Warwick, from when you were 15. You wanted to help people. That’s what general managers do. They help people. You wanted to do that. It developed naturally the remodeling of the Crucible Leadership ship to the Beyond the Crucible ship really is about recognizing that there are teachable moments within those stories. Let’s extract those teachable moments and put them in the arsenal of the folks that we’re serving, right?

Warwick Fairfax:

Absolutely, Gary. I mean really, you know, the book started with my story, the story of my father, John Fairfax and founder of the media company, stories of historical and inspirational and faith leaders. And with the podcast, some people are well-known, some people are not well-known. They’re just regular individuals like Stacey Copas and a number of others. So really it’s evolved and we always had principles in Crucible Leadership of refine, design, vision, reality. You’re refined by your crucibles, we’re designed by God or your creator, have you look at it a certain way, values and beliefs. You can find vision within your crucible and then implement it with fellow travelers, friends, coworkers.

So we always had some concepts, but now we’re emphasizing those a lot more so that stories are helpful, but because they illustrate points, but from those stories, we try to share as best we can, moments of inspiration, teaching, nuggets of wisdom, if you will, to the best degree we can, that we have or glean from others. And then turn those stories and those principles of inspiration into practical tools, that ultimately help you implement the learning from the stories and the inspirational points. And really our friends at SIGNAL led by Cheryl Farr, I couldn’t really say it any better than what they have on the new tagline for the website and my new business card and your new business card, which says, “Beyond the Crucible, inspiration and tools to turn your trials into triumphs.” If you go to the website, I’m sure that’ll be all over the place.

Yes, stories are important, but it’s not just my story or stories of leaders in history and faith and inspirational. It’s everyday stories that we talk about all the time, on the podcast and using those stories and moments of inspiration, thoughts of inspiration, to weave all those into practical tools, to help you get beyond your worst day, to help you lead a life of significance, have a vision that you’re passionate about. So it’s stories, inspiration and ultimately practical tools to help you live the life you’ve always wanted to live.

Gary Schneeberger:

And one of the things that we learned, and it was a huge learning, maybe the biggest learning that we’ll talk about in this conversation, was just how many people… I mean, you always had, we always had the idea in our heads that you weren’t alone. There’s a reason why the speech that you gave at church resonated with people even though you said, I don’t see a lot of other former media moguls in here. Something resonated with them.

We Crucible Leadership, the name at the time commissioned a study, that’s still going on, by Beyond the Crucible that found just how big that pool of folks is who have been through a crucible moment. Talk a little bit about that and what that has meant for the brand first Crucible Leadership and now especially as we begin to sail forward as Beyond the Crucible.

Warwick Fairfax:

Yeah, I mean, we commissioned a study from David and Heather at Dark Horse Insights, and they are experts at doing statistically valid surveys. And we’ve received input from more than 5,200 respondents. 72% of them have experienced something so traumatic or painful that it fundamentally changed their life. And we’ll talk more about this another time, but what’s amazing is irrespective of demographic or age group, that number holds true, of having gone through a crucible.

It’s not like, wow, it’s mainly skewed to people over 50 because they’ve lived a long life and stuff happens. I mean, which it does. There’s more opportunity for blessings and more opportunities for crucibles, the longer you live. But what’s amazing is it basically says there’s over a 70% chance that you, the people that you love, your family, the people that you work through, have gone through a devastating crucible. You may know about it, you may not know about it, but that is part of life.

So when we talk about, how do you bounce back from your worst day, that just doesn’t apply to 1% of the population. It’s like, everybody else is living in Disneyland, and let’s deal with the 1% who have had a challenge. No, when you define it in terms of something so traumatic that have fundamentally changed their life, that doesn’t include necessarily the people that we talk about in Second-Act Significance that maybe their life is okay, but it feels like it’s black and white and they want technicolor, and it’s like they want to go from, is this all there is to this is all I want, which, phrase that you coined. So credit Gary Schneeberger, it’s a brilliant phrase.

Gary Schneeberger:

Thank you.

Warwick Fairfax:

But yeah, I mean doesn’t even include the Second-Act Significance folks necessarily. So what it says is, this whole concept of coming back from your worst day or challenges, there’s a massive need for that. Over 70% of folks have gone through significant challenges.

Gary Schneeberger:

And to your point earlier about maybe the word leadership and Crucible Leadership was a barrier of some sorts to people, Beyond the Crucible perhaps opens up those doors for more of that 72% of the people who’ve been through that to walk through. The other thing that is critical I think about that data that we commissioned. About 72% people of people have been through what we defined as a crucible experience, is that it now gives us scientifically valid, what they call hard evidence, hard data, of crucible experiences and their effects and how many people go through them.

And then on top of that, we’ve gained through the podcast going on four years that soft data. So we’ve got quantitative and qualitative data that speaks to crucible experiences. That Warwick, that is a great big mixing bowl of ingredients to bake a whole lot of tools and helps and efforts and offerings to our friends who are listening now and who have yet to discover us. There’s a lot of hope and healing, to your point, to be mined from that data and that it’s hard data and soft data, right?

Warwick Fairfax:

Yeah. Absolutely. Well said. Yeah, over 5,000 folks who’ve responded to the survey that gives its hard data that is quantitative. Exactly. And as the research folks say, we’ve had like 150 odd episodes probably of, I don’t know, 100, 120 guests. I mean a lot of folks. We’ve got a lot of data in terms of qualitative data, of people’s stories. And what is remarkable and we’re continuing to do research to refine this. What are the lessons here and how can we design even more tools to help people?

What’s remarkable that you and I have discovered on the podcast, is that irrespective of age, gender, race, nationality, background, profession, experience, I mean number of people in the family, any way you slice it, if you will, the commonality in how people both faced the crucibles and how they bounced back is incredibly similar. I mean, it was amazing how I felt like, I and you were able to create personal connections with people that were nothing like us, that had different backgrounds.

You and I obviously have very different backgrounds. Our guests have very different backgrounds, certainly than me. It’s just the commonality of making a choice not to let your worst day define you. Forgiveness, not necessarily condoning, but finding those wisdom and seeds of a vision that can help people. The sense that as you focus on helping others, there’s almost drops of grace and healing. That’s the staggering thing amidst the diversity of background and challenges. The key lessons of how you bounce back from your worst day is incredibly similar, and that just continues to blow me away. I mean, it’s just amazing to me.

Gary Schneeberger:

And I continue to love this series BRUN THE SHIPS because I get to come up, like every five minutes, a new metaphor or a new saying that involves ships comes into my head. As we continue sailing, we’ve got nothing but open water ahead of us now. As we begin to process that data, you’ll hear so much more about it listener, about guests we have on the show, about other things that we may be doing to help you process your own crucible experiences. But that data and the diversity of that data, hard data and soft data gives us open sailing to really over the course of the – and I don’t say this to be over the top – in the weeks, months and years to come, we have opportunity now to really hone in on some new ways to help you navigate what it means to move beyond your crucible. To find your significance. That’s the headline for the old newspaper man out of this discussion.

The third point of our three point blog on this subject is that for the change in brand from Crucible Leadership to Beyond the Crucible. The third point is we wanted to offer you more and deeper opportunities to interact with us. One of the things I love about the name change, Warwick is that Beyond the Crucible bespeaks some action. I mean, my name Gary doesn’t have any action. Exciting Gary has some action to it if I change my name.

Beyond the Crucible suggests that if you come alongside us, if you come with us, if we come alongside you, if we partner up, you are going to gain some skills that will help you move Beyond your Crucible. It’s a label, yes, but it’s a label with some implied action to it that will benefit you. That’s one of the things I really love about that.

The other thing that we want to make sure happens here too, is we want to do more things to interact with folks like those who are listening right now. I mean, that’s a big part of what we’re hoping to do, is to hear more from them and converse more with them and interact more with them and find out more of what they’d like to hear about.

Warwick Fairfax:

Yeah. Well said. I think the point that you make is so good. Beyond the Crucible, it’s a much more emotive word. It conjures up an image. I mean, humans think in word pictures. You read a book, and images form in your mind about… You create your own movie in a sense, if you’re reading a thriller or a romance novel or what have you. So when you hear the words Beyond the Crucible, at least to me in your mind’s eye you’re thinking of, I’m going to get beyond my worst day, and I’m going to be given tools because this day is not going to define me, I’m going to get Beyond my Crucible.

The image is to me pretty clear. Crucible Leadership, it’s a good name, but it doesn’t quite have that same action-orientated emotive sense. It’s a statement, Crucible Leadership. What does that mean? Well, you have to read the book, or at least the first chapter, to get a bit more of a flavor. Beyond the Crucible, it’s clear about what we’re promising, what the emotion that’s associated with it. It’s an action orientated emotive word. Yeah. I mean, we love Beyond the Crucible and expanded from the podcast and now the whole organization.

And the second point you make is as a certified international coach federation executive coach, I actually love dialoguing with people. It’s funny. When I give speeches and we’ve given a bunch of speeches, I was at Seton Hall University in Northern New Jersey last fall, and I gave a talk to some my year at Harvard Business School. Whatever the setting is, my favorite part is when we get questions. I actually love that, that interaction.

So we’ve done some of that. We did a session with our folks who’ve purchased our Second-Act Significance e-course. We had a dialogue there. We want to have more dialogues and more opportunity to answer people’s questions and really create a dialogue within Beyond the Crucible community. You know why, we’re all about answering people’s questions, but by helping to answer people’s questions, we want to help people implement the learning and truly get beyond their crucible, lead lies and significance. So that dialogue we hope, will really help activate discussions that will help real life change happen.

Gary Schneeberger:

And that’s where you’ll see listener. We had one couple weeks ago, as we’re speaking now, a live Q&A where Warwick’s available to answer your questions. We’ll be looking to do more of those. I mean, one thing that we want to make sure you go away from this episode with, is our email address. If you have any questions for Warwick, any questions for any of us on the team, any questions about what direction we’re going, something that you heard on a podcast that you didn’t quite understand, whatever the question might be, info@beyondthecrucible.com. Send that along to us.

That’s one thing. We’re talking a lot about burning ships. Don’t burn that address. Write it down. Hang on to it so that you can continue to, as you listen to episodes, as you go through the Discover Your Second-Act Significance course. As questions come to you about how you move beyond your crucible, ask us those questions. We want to engage with you on those subjects. And there’ll be more opportunities for that to happen.

I’ve seen you at those speeches. When people come up and talk to you. I see you light up when that happens. So those Q&A’s with the family here at Beyond the Crucible, those folks that we help, those folks that listen to us, that watch us, talking to them more will be just lifeblood to you, won’t it?

Warwick Fairfax:

Absolutely. Yeah. I love answering people’s questions and hearing their heart and yeah, absolutely. I love that interaction.

Gary Schneeberger:

Just to level set where we’ve been. We’ve been talking about in the context of our series, BURN THE SHIPS, we’ve been talking about the new blog that, if not there yet, will soon be at beyondthecrucible.com. About why it is indeed we’re called Beyond the Crucible now, not called Crucible Leadership. And the three points that we’ve gone over for why that change was made.

The first one is we wanted to make clear we don’t just serve business leaders. We still do, but it’s a both/and. We serve business leaders and we serve people who are leaders as, I’m going to say it again, because this will be the third time I’ve said it, which is the most times I’ve ever said it, from the boardroom to the living room. People who are leaders of businesses, but also leaders in their own lives. That’s one of the reasons that the name change has happened, that the ship, while not burned, the Beyond the Crucible ship was not burned. It was remodeled, for sure.

We wanted to emphasize and pivot from primarily telling Warwick’s story and the stories of other leaders, including those in his own family, to helping you live out your story. I said it before, I’ll say it again. That to me is the biggest, most exciting pivot for me is that we’re focusing even more on helping you live out your story and how we can help you do that. And then the third point in that blog is we wanted to offer more and better opportunities for you to interact with us.

That’s where we’ve been. Those are the things that led Warwick to make the decision to, in the context of our series, burn the ship, of Beyond the Crucible. He didn’t really burn it. He simply remodeled it. We’ve remodeled it. We’ve added some new decks. We’ve put some really great new artwork on the walls. It moves perhaps better. Its navigational systems to get you where you need to go, have been upgraded. Those are the things that we’ve done to that ship as we continue to move forward.

As we get to the point here, Warwick, where it’s almost time to dock, as they say, what is a final thought that you or two that you have that you’d like to leave folks with?

Warwick Fairfax:

I think for those who have visions, it could be, you might think it’s big, small. I think any vision is big if it moves your heart. It’s not necessarily how many people that you impact or serve. I think you’ve just got to trust yourself, trust your inner voice, trust if you believe in a spiritual construct, your creator, God, however you look at it. But trust that inner voice, and as passionate as you are about your vision, visions can grow and be refined and change and evolve.

I mean, our vision evolved from Crucible Leadership to Beyond the Crucible. It evolved from an element of organizational leadership, which is fine, to focusing on leaders and individuals at all levels. That focused on stories of redemption, of grace and hope, of not letting your worst day define you, of finding vision, finding hope out of the ashes of your crucible to lead a life of significance. A life on purpose dedicated to serving others.

So our vision has grown, refined and expanded, and don’t be afraid of that. It’s not easy. When I first heard, gosh, we’re thinking of changing from Crucible Leadership to Beyond the Crucible, I got why. But I was like, “Okay, sure. Let me think about it. Let’s go.” It’s like, I like that title. I mean, I wrote a book with the title right there. It’s there in print. I’m not going to get a magic marker and cross out, make it Beyond the Crucible. Everybody send me their books back and I’m going to change the title. No.

Gary Schneeberger:

They’re going to bookstores and just going over them, yeah.

Warwick Fairfax:

Right. No. Not happening. You’ve got to be willing to listen to yourself, listen to your team, because visions grow and expand. You’re not abandoning things. It’s more, it is growing and evolving. So yes, there’s my story, but I also want to make sure that listeners understand a big part of why we’re doing it is not just to let you know, which we want to let you know what we’re doing and why, but there’s a purpose behind why we’re having this discussion in this BURN THE SHIPS series.

Because maybe you don’t need to burn your proverbial vision ship, but yes, as Gary said, you might need to do some extensive remodeling. Add decks, artworks, change the size of the ship. I mean, whatever. You’ve got to be willing to do that, because if you don’t, there are opportunities that you may not be taking. It’s a way of becoming even more true to yourself. We all should be growing and evolving as human beings. So therefore the things that we do, including our visions, need to grow, expand and evolve.

Gary Schneeberger:

Now, normally I would say the captain’s landed the plane, but I’m going to say Warwick Fairfax has just dropped anchor in our ship. The anchor has indeed dropped. As we always do with these discussion, these dialogue episodes that involve a blog that has been written at beyondthecrucible.com, we’re going to leave you with some reflection questions, to reflect on what we’ve talked about here.

First one is, ask yourself this question. In what ways have the resources of Beyond the Crucible helped you? Really do a little audit of that and see in what ways they’ve helped you, and if you’re still struggling with some areas, poke around, ask us what other resources we might have that could help you. Second point is, why are you most interested in learning about how to get beyond your crucible? Jot your thoughts down to ask Warwick or the team in a future live Q&A, or via email. And I’ll give you our email address at the end of the third point I’m going to make, which is this.

If you could ask Warwick only one question about his story, and about the offerings of Beyond the Crucible, what would it be? That’s interesting. I even want to jump at that one. And I get to ask you questions all the time. Take the time right now. Seriously, we’re wrapping the episode. Take the time right now to send the question to info@beyondthecrucible.com. Formulate that question, shoot it to us, and let us do what we said we want to do. Let us engage you in discussion and dialogue to help you move beyond your crucible.

That Warwick I think wraps up our episode. Again, our in the midst of a series called BURN THE SHIPS, and we encourage you if your ship feels like it’s drifting off course, if you’ve lost your way a little bit, you can’t find the exact navigation where you are going to go. There’s a couple things you can do. What we’ve done here, what we’ve talked about here is sometimes you just need to remodel the ship a little bit. Sometimes you need a new deck. You need a new room. You need maybe new personnel, whatever that looks like. Sometimes there’s remodeling, but sometimes there is indeed a time to pull out a matchbook, strike a match, and set that ship on fire for the next best ship that you can board. We’ll see you next week.

If you enjoyed this episode, learned something from it, we invite you to engage more deeply with those of us at Beyond the Crucible. Visit our website beyondthecrucible.com to explore a plethora of offerings to help you transform what’s been broken into breakthrough. A great place to start, our free online assessment, which will help you pinpoint where you are on your journey beyond your crucible, and to chart a course forward. See you next week.