Lauren Burns was 7 years old when her father, a Jordanian national divorced from her mother when she was just a few weeks old, kidnapped her and took her to his homeland. His plan was to raise her there.

But Lauren’s Mom fought tirelessly and valiantly to bring her back home to America. The details of how she succeeded in being reunited with her daughter, told here in edge-of-your-seat detail, feature a clandestine rescue operation led by former U.S. military operatives and what Lauren describes as miracles that not only got her home but also fueled her Chistian faith.

To learn more about Lauren Burns, visit www.laurenburns.net

To explore Beyond the Crucible resources, including our free Trials-to-Triumphs Self-Assessment, visit beyondthecrucible.com.

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Have a question or comment? Drop us a line at info@beyondthecrucible.com

Transcript

Warwick Fairfax:
Welcome to Beyond the Crucible. I'm Warwick Fairfax, the founder of Beyond the Crucible.

Lauren Burns:
Standing at that payphone, she called the headquarters. And when the woman answered, she said, "Do you have a Lauren and an Ali on your flight reservation?" And then the lady said, "Ma'am, I can't give out that kind of information." And then my mom's voice changed and she said, "Please, I think my ex-husband has taken my daughter. Can you please help me?"
And the lady put my mom on hold. She came back on the line and she said, "Yes, I have a Lauren and an Ali arriving in Amman, Jordan this evening." And that was the moment she knew that my dad had taken me. He had kidnapped me and taken me to Jordan.

Gary Schneeberger:
The story told by our guest this week, Lauren Burns, is both harrowing and inspiring. A testament to the love and faith of a mother to battle fiercely to rescue her daughter. Just how Lauren's mom did it, every detail of which you'll hear in this episode, is so amazing a TV movie was made of it. And every bit as powerful as Lauren's bounce back from her emotional devastation she experienced in the wake of being taken by her father.

Warwick Fairfax:
Well, Lauren, it's so exciting to have you here. I love just getting to know a bit about your story, which we'll unfold here. And obviously you're a physical therapist, but you have a whole website and you have a podcast, your Redeemed Podcast. And I love just some of the things on your website, "Overcoming adversity and inspiring hope. Join me on the journey of redemption." I love that word. Redemption is a wonderful word, and your story really is one of redemption.
So before we get to the Crucible, let's talk about how you grew up, which in some ways it was challenging from day one. It wasn't a typical upbringing from, I don't know, several weeks into your life. It wasn't normal, so to speak. So just tell us a bit about what life was like growing up, about your parents. And I think as we'll see, some of the seeds of the challenges that would unfold were there from the beginning.
Just maybe it wasn't obvious. Anyway, why don't you just unpack a bit about some of those early years and early memories?

Lauren Burns:
Sure. I love to. I always say my life started like a hot mess. It was a hot mess. I mean, it was. By the time I was six weeks old, my mom was filing for a divorce. Who wants to do that? My parents met in Texas. My father is from Jordan, near Israel, and he's Muslim. And he moved to Dallas to go to school. My mom is a Christian from Florida, so maybe the red flags are already going off like, this isn't going to work out. And they were both working at the same restaurant.
She was waiting tables, he was a cook, and they fell in love. When you're like 19, 20, you're not thinking about all the things of the future. So four years into their marriage, my mom became pregnant with me. And all of a sudden, my father told my mom that he had to go to Jordan because his father was sick, and my mom didn't think anything of it. She's like, "Okay, go to Jordan, take care of your dad."
And weeks turned into three months, and he was gone for three months. So I was my mom's first child, and there she was in her young 20s. Her closest friends were the only people that were with her. She didn't have family with her in Texas, and she thought she had been abandoned. And I actually came six weeks early because of all the stress that my mom was going through.
My father came back right before I was born, and he looked very different. He was dressed in the traditional Jordanian clothing. He had a prayer rug and he was praying. And he told my mom that he had gone to Jordan to make a home for us. He had found a job. He had found a place for us to live. And this was the first time my mom ever heard any of this.
So of course, she was like, "I never wanted to leave the United States, let alone go to Jordan. So no." So that's why my life started out like a hot mess. And my mom started filing for divorce, and the papers were done by the time I was about six weeks old.

Warwick Fairfax:
It almost seems like, as you're talking, when he went to Jordan for three months, it seems like there was a bit of a change. He went from more of a Western style clothing to... It would certainly seem like he got more serious about his Muslim faith. In hindsight, does that seem like something changed in your dad when he went back to Jordan?

Lauren Burns:
My belief is that all of a sudden he's about to be a father. And when you're about to be a parent... I can even use myself as an example. When I got married and had my first child, I was like, "I got to get back into church. I need to stop flip-flopping around, and I need to get back into my Bible study and be consistent because I've got a responsibility." I believe that that was what was going on with my dad.
It's like all of a sudden he's like, "Oh, I got to get myself together and go back to my roots. And this is the way I'm supposed to raise my daughter, and I need to bring my wife along." I can't speak for him, but it was a drastic change. So much so that my mom was in love with my dad. They had a good marriage. And then everything changed in the blink of an eye.
And my mom knew enough about her faith and she went back to her roots because that's what we do. We dive in deep when we need to hit our knees in prayer, right? It's like, "God, what's happening? I need you." And that's what happened. And so it drew my mom closer to God. And my mom and I, we started our life. As a kid of divorce, going between two homes, two totally different homes, but I was well loved in both homes.

Warwick Fairfax:
It's interesting that your mom... How old was she when she had you?

Lauren Burns:
She was about 24 years old. 23, 24.

Warwick Fairfax:
I mean, young, but not too young. But what's interesting is I understand that she was no pushover, because from what I understand, your dad had views about your name and other things and where you would live. So just talk about how your mom handled it. because she wasn't like this,, "Oh, whatever you say, honey, and let's go." Just I find admirable, because not all women in that situation would have stood up the way she did. So just talk about how your mom stood up that had an impact right from birth.

Lauren Burns:
I'm glad you said that because God knows what we're going to go through way before we do. He knows the kind of mom you need, the kind of father you need. He knows the friendships that you need. And God gave me a very brave, strong-willed woman of faith as my mom. And yes, when my dad came back, she could have been fearful, like you said, and just gone along with it.
But instead, she was mad, mad that he had left her. All those emotions that were going on. And she stood up and she's like, "No, I'm not going to let you... I want Lauren to have an American name." He wanted me to have an Arabic name. He was pinning little charms on me that was all in Arabic and the gold bracelets and necklaces and things like that. And so from the beginning, it was like a spiritual warfare over my life, honestly.
And my mom never gave up. So she has always been a business woman, very successful. And she started a journey on us living... We moved out and she lived with a woman by the name of Joyce. She became my Aunt Joyce. And she was actually working with Beverly and Rick Lambert are Miranda Lambert's parents, the country singer/songwriter Miranda Lambert.
And my mom was actually working with Miranda's grandmother at an apartment complex. And Miranda's grandmother, they all knew what was going on, that my mom was a young mother with an infant trying to figure out how to pay for diapers and formula. And so Wanda said, "Hey, Cathy, I know this woman that lives in the apartments as well, and she's a single woman, doesn't have a child, but she loves children. I want to introduce you."
And we ended up living with her. My Aunt Joyce stepped in and helped raise me. She was a part of my life until she passed away. And she was like a second mother to me. And again, God was providing all these people to come alongside and help raise me and prepare for what we were going to be going through in the years to come.

Warwick Fairfax:
But what's interesting to me is as I understand the story, obviously mom stood up to your dad and said, "No, we want to stay here." She probably took you to church and probably things like that, I'm assuming, and gave you the name she wanted, Lauren. But it wasn't like it was so bad. It's not like you didn't have any relationship with your dad. And he remarried. So talk a bit about the pre-major crucible. Life didn't seem to be... It was challenging, but it didn't seem to be terrible from a kid's point of view, right?

Lauren Burns:
Correct.

Warwick Fairfax:
Because you didn't know all the backstory. So talk a bit about going from mom to your dad and just your dad's new family. So talk about how all that worked out.

Lauren Burns:
That is all I knew. I mean, that's all I knew was a life of two different homes. And my parents got along really well. Like you said, I didn't see the details of the strife. I saw all the good. Anytime I wanted to go see my dad, I could. I saw him every other weekend. My mother had full custody of me, but she wanted me to have a relationship with my dad. He was loving and kind, and he was a good father.
I call him the Disney dad. We would go to the movies on the weekends and go do all the fun things. He remarried to a woman, her family's from the Middle East, but was raised in the United States. And so they had children. So I got to be a big sister. So every other weekend I get to go hang out with my little brother and little sister. It was a different feel because they had a bigger family.
And then the other weekends, it was just my mom and I. We would do our chores together, get the apartment cleaned up, go do the fun things with the two of us. So I had a great bond with... Because my mom and I, it was just the two of us, so we were like best friends. And then I go experience my dad's house with their family and their traditions. And so I just went back and forth between two different places.
When my dad took me to the mosque, I thought at that young of an age, I was praying to Jesus in a different language. I didn't know. I didn't grasp the difference. So life was good and it's all I knew. I didn't know anything else, but that.

Warwick Fairfax:
This is really probably the biggest crucible. From what I understand, it was a Halloween weekend and you were looking forward to trick or treating. And I think you went as a cheerleader, I think you said, which is obviously for young girls going to be pretty exciting, right? So talk a bit about what you thought this was going to be a really special Halloween, but it was a bit different than you would expect. So talk about that story and what unfolded.

Lauren Burns:
Yes, I was very excited. My dad had asked my mom if I could spend an extra night so I could go trick or treating with him and my siblings. And my mom said, "Of course. Yes, no problem." Just make sure that I got to school that Monday. Usually he would take me back home on Sunday. So he came to pick me up from my mom's house, and I had my suitcase all packed up ready to go and got in the car.
And it was just my dad and I. My stepmother at the time, she was pregnant with their third child. She was not with us. My siblings were not with us. And my dad just turned and looked at me and said, "I have a big surprise for you." And I was like, "Yes. We're going to go trick or treating." And he said, "No. Actually we are going to the airport. I'm taking you on a big trip to go to Jordan to meet your family."
Well, I began to ask all the questions. I was like, "My mom never told me anything about going to Jordan. She said you were taking me to school on Monday. I have my backpack. Are you sure she knows about this? Where's my siblings? Where's my stepmom?" My father told me that my stepmother could not travel because she was pregnant. Well, I didn't know that that wasn't true.
All those years I thought that if you're pregnant, you can't travel. You're going to lose the baby. I didn't know. And he just kept saying my mom didn't want to ruin the surprise. She knows. It's okay, Lauren. Don't worry. You'll see. You're going to be excited. This is going to be a big adventure. And he just continued to drive towards the airport. And my father and I got on an airplane.
And that same day I know that the Holy Spirit was already working in my mom's life, even though she didn't know what was about to happen. Like I said, my mom was a single mom. And it's really hard to stop your day, whether you're a single mom or working mom or whatever, it's hard to stop your day and go have lunch with your child. It was very out of the ordinary for my mom.
She'd never did that kind of thing. But that Monday she went to go have lunch with me at my elementary school. My mom was scanning, looking for me, and all the kids are lining up to go to the lunchroom and she doesn't see me anywhere. And the teacher catches her eye and she comes over and begins to tell my mom that I never came to school that day.
And my mom was like, "What do you mean that Lauren never came to school?" And she said, "Well, your ex-husband never dropped her off." And so my mom, of course, was mad. The first emotion was she was mad. That was the last thing she told my dad is make sure Lauren gets to school. So this is in the '80s. There's no cell phone. She goes over to the payphone and she dials my dad's house and the phone rings and rings and nobody answers.
Then she dials his restaurant. Him and his brother owned a restaurant in the Dallas area, and they told my mom that my dad had never arrived to work. He didn't go to work that day. Well, that anger changed to fear. And in that moment, again, it's like the Holy Spirit started talking to my mom. My mom had gone to Jordan nine years before this happened right before they had gotten married to meet my father's family.
And she remembered that the main airlines into Amman was back then it was called the Royal Alia Airlines and their headquarters were in New York. Standing at payphone, she called the headquarters. And when the woman answered, she said, "Do you have a Lauren and Ali on your flight reservation?" And then the lady said, "Ma'am, I can't give out that kind of information."
And then my mom's voice changed and she said, "Please, I think my ex-husband has taken my daughter. Can you please help me?" And the lady put my mom on hold. She came back on the line and she said, "Yes, I have a Lauren and Ali arriving in Amman, Jordan this evening." And that was the moment she knew that my dad had taken me. He had kidnapped me and taken me to Jordan.

Warwick Fairfax:
So you're now in Amman, Jordan. You got off the plane. And what happened next with you and what happened next with your mom and her next steps?

Lauren Burns:
Like I said, I had never gone to Jordan before. I didn't know how to speak Arabic. I knew very little.

Warwick Fairfax:
I'm sorry, how old were you again at the time?

Lauren Burns:
I was seven.

Warwick Fairfax:
Wow.

Lauren Burns:
Seven years old. This was 1987 when he took me. I knew very little Arabic, and I didn't understand the cultural differences. That was the biggest shock to me. Because like I said, my father was very loving and kind. I felt like I was the apple of his eye. I felt like I was his princess when I was with him in Dallas. But in Jordan, I didn't understand that there were rules and there were clear lines of what men are supposed to do and what women are supposed to do.
The women take care of the children, they take care of the home, and the men work or do other things. And so I felt very alone because I didn't recognize my father. I didn't know who this man was. He wasn't as loving. He wasn't tucking me in at night. He wasn't helping me get dressed and reading me stories. He was letting my aunts and my grandmother do those things, which I didn't really know them.
They spoke English, but mainly Arabic. And so I was in a different country, different customs, different language, different food, everything. It was a culture shock for me. That is where I would cover my hair and I didn't understand why I had to cover my hair. I would go to the mosque, and it was very traditional. I didn't understand why I couldn't go pray with my dad.
I'm like at church, we can pray anywhere. We can pray in the car. We can pray in our closet. We can pray wherever. So it was total culture shock. And I wanted my mom. But even if I couldn't have my mom, I wanted my stepmom. I needed someone that I could feel safe with because I didn't really recognize my father, and I couldn't even have my stepmom with me and I couldn't have my little siblings with me, and I didn't understand why.

Warwick Fairfax:
And I'm assuming at the mosque, which you would have gone regularly now that you're in Jordan and your dad is around, his family, was in Arabic. Probably some of the conversations were in Arabic as just the whole culture at church. You probably started going to a school, I'm guessing.

Lauren Burns:
Yes. Yes. When I started going to school, I knew it wasn't vacation. I mean, any seven-year-old knows that. So that's when I knew that this wasn't right. I would ask, "Can I talk to my mom?" And my dad would push me off, "Later, Lauren. Later. She's asleep. The times are different. We have to wait. We have to wait." But when I started going to school is really when the fear really came in.
Some of the things that were really traumatic, the bathrooms were different. It was a hole in the floor with a chain above, and for a seven-year-old little girl to use a bathroom to squat over a little hole. They didn't use toilet paper. You had to clean yourself with your hand. I was afraid of the bathroom, to be honest. And so I would wet myself. I would rather wet myself than use the restroom.
And so my father, I remember one time he put a diaper on me thinking if he embarrassed me enough and put a diaper on me and let my cousins come and see me in this diaper, it would break me of that habit. I was just going through a lot of emotions and I didn't understand why. And I didn't know if I'd ever see my mom again at that point.

Warwick Fairfax:
I'm assuming, was this a religious school that you were going to, I mean, like a Muslim school?

Lauren Burns:
I found that out after I started researching my own story. I didn't know this until I listened... I have cassette tape recordings of my mom calling my dad, which are very hard to listen to. My 14-year-old one day heard me listening to all these cassette tapes and he said, "Mom, that's too hard for me to listen to. I can't hear Mimi," Mimi's my mom, "I can't hear Mimi cry like that," because she was calling every day begging to talk to me, begging to talk to my dad.
And all they would say in Arabic is, "Ali's not here. Lauren's not here." It was very broken English, mainly Arabic. But because of those cassette tapes, I found out, yes, I was going to a private school. I would wear uniforms. I would ride the bus. And yes, everything was in Arabic. I was going to the mosque. We would be called to prayer. You know that sound of being called to prayer, that triggers memories for me.
There's different smells. The food was amazing, by the way. Everything's very fresh, the hummus, the pita bread. All of the family always cooking in the kitchen. Those are good memories. But that sense of smell, it sparks those feelings and it sparks those memories whenever I am in that kind of a situation.

Warwick Fairfax:
So you were called to prayer several times a day at school.

Lauren Burns:
Yes.

Warwick Fairfax:
So what was happening back in the US with your mom? She's obviously frantic, beside herself, probably not knowing what to do, but talk about what she was feeling and what she did.

Lauren Burns:
That's another thing I will share as I go back and I am revisiting my story, you never know who's fighting for you. You never know who's fighting for you. You might feel like you are in the deepest, darkest hole. And maybe it's God that's fighting for you. In the midst of that darkness, there is a war going on. There are people fighting for you. There's a war in the heavenlies.
And that's what was going on for me when I was in Jordan and I had no clue. My mom every single day was fighting for me. She called Rick and Beverly Lambert standing at that payphone before she even left. Rick was a police officer in Dallas. But at this point, him and his wife Beverly had a private investigation company called Lambert and Lambert. They are like my second parents.
They're still in my life. And my mom called Rick 911. And Rick and Bev, I interviewed them on my podcast and they share the story that they were working together at the Dallas County Courthouse this day that the page came through. And Rick looked at Beverly and said, "It's Cathy. Something's wrong. She's paging me 911." So Rick borrowed the phone and called my mom, and my mom told him, "Ali has taken Lauren. I don't know what to do."
So they jumped in their car and they drove to my mom's townhouse in Richardson. And that's where everything began to unravel. My mom wasn't eating. She wasn't sleeping. It was day after day. Every phone call they made, Rick said, "Get a recording device from Radio Shack and put it on the phone. So every phone call you make, you can go back and listen to try to get a clue of where Lauren might be as you're talking to Ali's family.
And also, when you call the police or the State Department, we can listen to those tapes because your mind is going to be all over the place and you're not going to be able to remember everything they're telling you." Thank God for Rick. I have those tapes. 37 years later, I've been listening to all of those tapes, which is so hard, but it's given me my book. It's given me the story.
It's given me the insight of what God did in my life and in my mom's life. But that's where things began to unravel. Like I said earlier, my mom was calling Jordan every day begging for help, begging to find out where I was. The police told my mom, "We can't help you. It's outside of our jurisdiction. Even though you have full custody of Lauren, her father is a Jordanian citizen and he has taken her to Jordan. There's nothing we can do."
And I have this cassette tape. This could have easily happened in person. Bev and Rick and Miranda was about four years old at the time, they actually moved in with my mom. They were living with her to help her through this process. But on this particular day, Beverly was out visiting her brother, and I think it's because God wanted me to hear this cassette tape.
And Beverly calls my mom, and my mom just breaks down crying. And she's like, "Beverly, please pray for Lauren. Whether she's in the mosque, if she's in the streets of Jordan, if she's in school, pray for her protection no matter where she is." And Beverly starts praying this powerful prayer over me. And then she stopped and said, "Cathy, you have got to get away from all of the noise and the chaos, and you have got to be alone with God and pray."
And my mom just starts crying and said, "You're right. I've got to pray. I've got to get away from all the craziness, and I have to stop smoking these cigarettes." My mom had smoked cigarettes since she was little, but at this point she was smoking like two cigarettes at a time is what she told me because she was so stressed out. And then Beverly said, "You know, Cathy, I read a book about fasting and how fasting brings you the closest to God." And my mom said, "You're right. I need to get away and fast and pray."
But before she could do that, Rick had set up an appointment, a meeting at the Dallas County Courthouse with the grand jury. He pulled some strings and was able to get her an appointment with them. And Rick told her, "I don't think they're going to be able to really help you, but it's just another step in the right direction. I think they can get a warrant out for Ali's arrests. So if he tries to come back to the United States to see my stepmom, because my stepmom had not gone to Jordan, then maybe they can capture him, put him in jail, and figure out where Lauren is."
So my mom went to the grand jury that day. She stood before the men and the women and began to tell them my story, that my dad had taken me. And she had full custody, but my father was a Jordanian citizen. And they told her, "I'm so sorry, there's nothing we can do for you. We hear these stories, but the United States does not have a treaty with Jordan, so therefore we can't get involved."
My mom broke down and she said, "Can I be real with you right now? It's not fair that we spend billions of dollars in foreign aid and you're telling me you can do nothing to help me get my daughter back." And they all nodded and shook their head in agreement with her. And one man stood up and opened his wallet and said, "My name is Al Zapanta. I work for the State Department. If you're not happy, here's my card. Give me a call and I'll see what I can do for you."

Warwick Fairfax:
What was the next step in the journey for your mom?

Lauren Burns:
So the next step, my mom went back to her townhouse and Beverly opened the door and she could see the desperation and the fear all over my mom's face. And she said, "Well, Cathy, how did it go?" And my mom was just like, "They can't do anything to help us." So she grabbed her Bible, she grabbed her bag, and she said, "I don't know where I'm going, but I've got to get away."
And so Bev and Rick said, "Don't worry, Cathy, we've got everything here. If Ali calls or if someone calls from Jordan, we will answer the phone. You go be alone." So she started driving towards Fort Worth and had no clue where she was going and found a motel room. And she was there for three days, three nights, fasting and praying, just drinking water. She had her Bible with her.
On that third day of prayer, she opened her Bible and God led her to Daniel 10. And in this verse, Daniel is praying over the Israelites. He had been fasting and praying for 21 days over the Israelites. And the angel Gabriel came to Daniel and said in 10:12, "Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before God, your words were heard."
It's like God was saying, "Cathy, I see you. Because you have stopped and you've come to this motel room and you have taken your eyes off your situation and you're putting your eyes on me and you're being humble and you're praying, I heard your prayer from day one." But if you continue to read in Daniel the angel Gabriel told Daniel, "I heard your prayer on day one, but there is a war in the heavenlies over the Israelites."
And I believe God was telling my mom, "There's a war in the heavenlies over your daughter, but don't be afraid because I will go before you." And then God wrestled, I say it's wrestling with God. God began to wrestle with my mom and said, "You've got to lay some things down. You've got to lay down those cigarettes." And my mom was like, "If you bring my daughter back, I won't ever smoke again."
And then God started to show my mom, "You've got to lay down areas of bitterness and anger and resentment. There's some things in your life you've got to lay down." Because the Bible talks about the prayers of the righteous are answered and heard. And when we've got those bitterness and unforgiveness, God wants us to deal with that first. And sometimes when we pray, we got to go a little bit deeper.
And that's what fasting is about. There's a scripture, I think it's in Matthew, where the disciples are saying, "God, why can't we cast out demons?" And the response is because some demons need to be fought through not just prayer, but fasting. And that's what my mom was doing. She walked out of that motel room. Everything changed. She went back to the head townhouse.
Beverly answered the door. And this time she looked at my mom and she's like, "You look different." And my mom smiled and said, "I am different. God told me I'm going to get my daughter back." She got that number, that card out of her wallet and she called Al Zapanta. Al Zapanta is a big deal. He has a lot of military awards. He's still working to this day.

Warwick Fairfax:
This is this guy in the State Department?

Lauren Burns:
Yeah, the State Department guy. That's Al Zapanta. He is still in the political world, still working. She calls Al. Al told my mom one week before Al was in that jury room that day that he was in Washington, DC having lunch with a man by the name of Everett Alvarez. Everett Alvarez is the second longest held POW. He is a very well-known military man, and they were good friends.
At this lunch, Everett was telling Al about a group of men that live in North Carolina, they were ex-military, Delta Force, Army Rangers, Green Beret, that had come up with their own company called CTU, and their mission was to go to the Middle East and to rescue hostages, to rescue people that had been taken. They've never rescued a child. But my mom was like, "What?"
And so I want to back up and repeat this. One week before Al was in that courtroom, he was having lunch with Everett. God was ordaining every step before my mom ever walked in that room. But how would she have ever known that?

Warwick Fairfax:
I mean, that is just stunning because it's not like you say, "Oh, let me look up the yellow pages for ex-Delta Force people that can go to Jordan and rescue my daughter." I mean, obviously no internet back then. It's just you wouldn't know where to begin. Who would tell you? Other than a miracle, there's no way that she would know. I mean, so why file that grand jury filing when it was hopeless?
There was a purpose. There's no way your mom could possibly know. If she hadn't filed that grand jury, she would never have met this guy in the State Department. It never would have happened. I mean, that is just stunning. So now she gets connected with the State Department guy with this group in North Carolina of ex-military people who were formed precisely to do what your mom so desperately needs.
I mean, what was her reaction when she heard Al say, "I've got this group of ex-Delta Force and Army Rangers and they do what we need done here." I mean, what was her reaction when she heard that?

Lauren Burns:
She had already gone to Soldier of Fortune Magazine and she was looking at the very back pages looking for mercenaries. That's where she was. Rick Lambert was already trying to figure out how to put together a mission on his own to go over there. I mean, that's how desperate they were. My mom said, "I don't care who I need to hire." That was their mindset. And so my mom said, "I've got to meet these men." She had already made folders of...
My father had I think 12 siblings. She had typed up all of their names, what they looked like, what they did for work, all of their children. She had maps of Jordan. She had drawn by memory what his house looked like. She had every single detail. And so Al was like, "Hold on, Cathy. They've never rescued a child. They do not work for the United States anymore. It's going to cost a lot of money. And if they get captured, they're risking their life."
And my mom said, "I want to meet these men. I have to meet these men." And so she flew Don and Dave into Dallas and they met. My mom showed up with all those folders, everything she had prepared, and they were blown away with her. They were blown away with how committed she was, how prepared she was. And they looked at her and they said the same thing. They said, "We've never tried to rescue a child. We cannot guarantee her safety or your safety, and it's going to cost a lot of money." And my mom said, "I will figure all of that out if you're willing to do this."

Warwick Fairfax:
So kind of what happened next? I'm just amazed that they even came and listened. They could have been very practical saying, "Yeah, it's risky for us. We may not get paid. We feel very sorry for Cathy, but gee, we can't help." But yet they didn't say that. I mean, what happened and why, because it's a stunning aspect of the story?

Lauren Burns:
When I talked to Dave, Dave is 80, 85, somewhere in there, and he said, "Lauren, I've never met a woman like your mom before. You can't say no to your mom. And she just had something about her and we had to say yes." He said, "Don and I talked it over for maybe an hour, maybe two hours, and both of us were like, we're in. We have to do this. We have to save this little girl." And they're fathers, they have their own families, and that's all they could think of.
If this was my kid, I would do anything. And that's where my mom was. And they knew that my mom was going to try to do whatever she could on her own anyways. Actually, it cost my mom $80,000, but it should have cost more. They didn't make any money really off of that rescue mission. It cost them every dime to try to get me back. And so that's where everything began in that hotel meeting room.
They said yes. My mom's job was to go to Washington, DC and try to get passports for me. Because the problem was back then, my father had an active passport for me already used, and my mom had to get another passport, which was difficult to do, and visas and entry stamps, border passes, all of that. So she went to Washington to get the paperwork that the men would need.
And she was trying to call Jordan every day trying to act like everything was normal. Keep a normal profile. And the men were teaching my mom what to say on the phone to try to figure out and get hints of, was I in school? You asked me about private school. So Dave was like, "Start asking questions. Is Lauren in school? What kind of school?" That way they could try to narrow down where to try to find me.
And Dave was the first one into Jordan. His job was the intel was to try to figure out an escape route, to try to lay eyes on me to make sure I was actually in Jordan, because they thought I could have been in Lebanon, and to try to find my father's home.

Warwick Fairfax:
So how did they find you and rescue you?

Lauren Burns:
So that, I really think going back and looking at my story, I think God, honestly, we know that we serve a jealous God, and I think he's like, "I want everybody to know that nothing happened until I showed up," until God showed up. And so JD was explaining to me, he's like, "Lauren, we were everywhere. I was in the ruins." My mom had given them photos of when she was there.
So they went back to all those areas where the photos were taken, trying to search for my father's home. And they were all in disguise. They were changing out the rental cars every day. Jerash is a small town. My dad had a big family. And so they were very cautious. They did not want to be recognized. And the longer they were in country, the more risk of being recognized.
And so days of doing this, Don and JD were on the streets, and JD just starts praying. He's like, "Okay, God, I've done everything I know how to do in my expertise and my experience. You're going to have to help us find this kid." They had pictures of me. I have all of complexion skin and dark hair, but I have bright bluish green eyes. I have my mom's eyes. And so that was that distinguishing feature.
And a few moments after JD is praying, he's on the street and Don's a couple feet away from him, and a school bus pulled up right where JD was standing. And he turned and looked through that window, and there I sat. I turned my head and I was staring right at him. Now, I don't remember this because I didn't know what was going on, but JD did. He was staring right at me.
And he ran over to Don and shook him by the shoulders and said, "I saw Lauren. She's on the bus." And Don was like, "How do you know? What do you mean? Why are you so excited?" And JD was like, "I saw her eyes. I know it's her." And the bus had already driven off. And so they tried to follow it, but the streets were really windy and tight and narrow and crowded.
But that was the first moment that they actually knew I was in Jordan. I was in Jerash. So they phoned Dave, and then Dave called my mom, who was in Cyprus waiting for the call, that yes, they had spotted me and I was there. But they needed my mom's help to find my father's home because they could not find it. The city had grown so much compared to her photos that nothing looked the same.

Warwick Fairfax:
Wow! So how did they find the house?

Lauren Burns:
They picked her up from the airport in Amman. And as they're driving her, she's in the front seat. Don's driving. JD's in the back. And my mom is in disguise with her hair covered. And this fear just overcomes her. And she was like, "Nothing looked the same." The dirt roads were paved. The little buildings were now big. I guess they build on top of the other. Bigger and bigger buildings.
So nothing looked familiar. So she got down in the floorboard of that front seat and she buried her head down. And she started crying and praying out loud. She's like, "I didn't care if these guys thought I was crazy." And she just started praying and said, "God, you've got to show me where Lauren is. You haven't brought us this far to not find her." And it's like the Holy Spirit with her never opening her eyes began to remind her of the different turns in the road.
And as the engine of the car started to strain going up and down the hills, she began to tell Don, "Go straight. Turn left. Go right." And then all of a sudden, she looked out her window and she saw my dad's white Mazda with Texas license plates sitting on the street. And she froze. And finally she said, "Don, I saw Ali's car." And so Don said, "Okay, Cathy, hide your face. I'm going to turn back around."
So he turned the car back around. And as he turned the car back to go past that building, my dad has stepped out from the building. And Don spotted him. And so that's how they found the home. Again, it wasn't until my mom started praying in that car.

Warwick Fairfax:
Okay, so they found the house. Then what happened?

Lauren Burns:
So they found the house. So then the next thing was to put together the mission of what to do. So they realized the house was in a crowded area. There was a police station not far from the house. And so they decided it would not be safe to try to get me out of the house. And they started to watch the school bus. And as they started watching the school bus and the route, there was one little farmhouse on the outskirts of town, and they figured that would be the safest place to get me because it was away from the crowds.
It was away from the police. So that was the plan. So the day of the mission, Dave was in one car. He was in a white car, and then the other car was with Don and JD and my mom. They needed my mom with them, so that way I wouldn't be as scared to go with them. So my mom did this rescue mission with the men. They were all dressed in disguise. Dave's job was to make sure I actually got on the school bus that day.
They don't want to hijack the bus. And for some reason, I didn't even go to school. So Dave's watching the bus. He sees me get on. He drives over to where Don is waiting, and he says, "The mission is a go. The sun is shining." And as soon as the school bus passed Don, Don went behind the bus and blocked it so that way the bus could not get out as the kids are getting on the bus from the farmhouse.
Don gets out and he goes to the driver's side and he's making a big commotion, speaking in English, hoping to distract the bus driver. And JD goes around to the passenger side. It's like those accordion style bus doors, and he's breaking through those doors. He gets the keys out of the ignition and he throws the keys into some bushes hoping that they will go looking in the bushes for the keys instead of going straight to the police.
While this is going on, my mom goes and she's in disguise, and she walks over to my window. She spotted me. And she taps on the window to get my attention. And I turn. And there's a lot that I don't remember from this rescue because again, I went in shock. But I'll never forget the day I saw my mom for the first time. It had been three months since I'd seen my mom.
And I looked at her and she's in disguise, but I see her bright blue eyes looking at me. And all I could think was, "It looks just like my mom, but how can it be? She's in Texas." All I could think of is, "I'm dreaming. This isn't happening." And so I froze. My mom's motioning to me, but I froze. So my mom had to get on the bus and she pushes past Don and JD and gets me and gets my backpack, because that's the instinct of a mom to get your backpack.
And she's getting me off that bus. And as we step down onto the ground, there's a lady chaperone and the lady chaperone, they don't know what's going on. So she jumps on my mom's back. My mom has to let go of me. She turns around and she punches the woman in the nose. So now the woman, there's blood coming down her face. So now I'm really shocked like, "Is this my mom? Who is this person?"
And so Don sees what's happening. He comes around and he helps get me in the car. And Don and JD and my mom, we all get in the car and they hide me under some blankets and we drive off. And a couple blocks down the road, Dave meets us and we switch cars. Dave took the car that we used to hijack the bus, and he drove back towards the city to be a decoy.
And it worked because he got pulled over. He was surrounded by Jordanian police. They pull him out of that car. They're blocking traffic. They bring the bus driver over to Dave, and the bus driver is saying in Arabic, "That's the car, but I don't know who the guy is." Because remember Dave wasn't at the hijacking. And Dave is just speaking English. He's acting like a tourist.
They're tearing apart his car. And the only thing he had in his car was a Snickers, a Pepsi can, and a little jar of sand. And he was being interrogated for like 30 minutes on the side of the road. And all of a sudden, he hears on the radio, "Alia Airport. Alia Airport." Well, my mom had made reservations for us to fly out of Amman back to the United States hoping that they would look for us at the airport.
Well, because of that, the Jordanian police, they all leave Dave on the side of the road. They all jump in their police cars and they all drive to the airport. They were shutting down the entire airport looking for me. And Dave was able to escape. But while all of that was going on, we were headed to Israel. Our escape route was over the Jordan River, over the King Hussein Allenby Bridge.
My mom was able to secure a border pass and the passports and all the paperwork we needed, and that's a whole nother story, to get me over that border. While we were driving, the fog was so thick. It was about a 45-minute drive from where we were to the border. And the fog was so thick, it slowed us down. And my mom's holding me in the backseat.
I'm burning up with fever. They said all I would do is speak Arabic at that point, because I was in shock. And my mom was just praying over me. And she looked out the window and she said, "What is that bright light in the distance?" And Don said, "Well, Cathy, that's Israel. The sun is shining over Israel." It was just like, again, God's like, "Cathy, I'm with you. I am not going to leave you. You are going to be okay."
So we get to the border. And back then you couldn't drive over the border. You had to leave your car. You give all your paperwork to the military. And when you get there, there are big barbed wire fences, tall shacks with military, with machine guns. It is very secured. Don and JD and Dave had walked that border many times. They knew where all the traps were, but it didn't matter.
What are you going to do if they figure out who we are? So we get on that bus and we wait for about 30 minutes. It took forever. And as we're waiting on that bus, they're shutting down the airport looking for us. We start to drive over the bridge. And in the middle of the bridge back then there was a shack where an Israeli bus driver and an Israeli soldier would get on and switch out with a Jordanian bus driver and soldier, and they would take you on over into Israel.
Well, our bus stops, they switched the guards around, and we start driving over that border into Israel. And then there's a huge commotion where we had just left. They just realized we weren't at the airport, but that we were on that bus going over the border. But by that time, it was too late. There's nothing they could do because we had already gone over into Israel.
So we get off that bus. My mom starts crying. She's hugging me, I'm crying. And there was a huge commotion. And there was a group of women that were there, and they went over to JD. And JD is this big handsome military guy. And they said, "Sir, what is going on? Is that little girl okay? Is that mother okay?"
And JD looked at him with tears going down his face and said, "You see that little girl? She's been gone for three months and we just brought her home. That's her mom. And they just reunited for the first time. And we just brought her home to safety." And those women are jumping up and down saying, "Praise you, Jesus. Hallelujah. You've brought us to the Holy Land and we've seen a miracle."

Warwick Fairfax:
At that point, you're in Israel. And then I'm assuming soon after you got on a plane to go back to the US?

Lauren Burns:
So that night, there's some parts of the story that I didn't share. I'm sorry, Don and Dave had connections with Marco Productions. They produced the Rambo and Iron Eagle III movies. This is another God thing. Iron Eagle III was being produced at the same time, and this was happening in Israel, at the same time that I was kidnapped and my rescue is going on.
Don and Dave had connections with that production company. Louis Gossett Jr., who's in Iron Eagle III, was there producing this movie. And Don had talked with the producers and told them... He didn't tell them everything because he didn't want them to get in trouble if they got caught. But he said, "Can I use your movie production as a backdrop of why we're crossing?"
Because they were crossing the border every day and they were checking everything. And some of the Israeli soldiers knew what was going on. So when we got there, they knew what had just happened. So they were there to help us. The day I come home, there was a huge party. Louis Gossett Jr. threw a big party for us for the rescue team. And he came over to Don.
He's a big guy and he put his hand on Don's shoulder and said, "Are you going to introduce me to this little girl and to this mother that you just brought over?" I mean, so that night we had a big party in Israel, and then we flew home.

Warwick Fairfax:
So you got back to the US. You still probably had a lot of trauma to deal with. Your mom had trauma about almost losing a child. I mean, how did you get through those next few weeks, few months, few years? It can't have just been, "Oh good, we're all safe. Back to normal. Let's go to school. Let's go back to sports activities and dance." I'm sure it wasn't that easy. So what was that reentry like in those days, months, and years for you and your mom?

Lauren Burns:
And you're correct. And that's another reason I'm writing a book, because the movie does not share or show the after part. And it's a real story with real trauma, and not everything's going to end with a little red bow wrapped around it. I had to deal with a lot of wounds, father wounds, of anger and hurt and unforgiveness, and growing up without a dad. We had to change our last name.
We lived in hiding. By the time I was in high school, I think we moved like 14 times. My mom spent $80,000 to get me back. And so she started over from scratch. We moved in with my grandmother in Florida so that my mom could get back on her feet. We had nothing. She sold her last piece of jewelry to pay for rent. And that's the truth. We had media. I don't know how this happens. I don't know how media finds out about things, but we had media at all of our doorsteps.
My family's trying to find pictures and photos of me. And here we are trying to hide. I had to grow up. I lost my dad. I lost my dad when he took me. Because of the decisions he made, he broke that trust. He hurt me in a way that I never thought a father could hurt a daughter. That was a lot of father wounds. I had to learn how to forgive him. My years of healing was I lived with the Lamberts again.
God puts people in your life when he knows what you need. In my middle school years, I started going down a dark path. My mom remarried to an amazing man. I mean, I couldn't ask for a better stepfather. He loved me. He didn't care about disciplining me. He just loved me, and that's what I needed. That's what I needed, right? I just needed to be loved. But he took my mom from me.
That's how I felt, because it was just my mom and I for so many years of living through what we went through. And so my middle school years, I started to rebel and I got into some trouble. And Beverly saw that and said, "Lauren is going down the wrong path. And if you don't do something, Cathy, you're not going to get her back." And so I moved. My parents actually bought land in Lindale where Miranda's from out in the country. They didn't have to do that, but they did. They bought land and built a house.

Warwick Fairfax:
Where is this? What state are we in?

Lauren Burns:
In Texas. We're still in Texas. It's in the country.

Warwick Fairfax:
Okay. Got it.

Lauren Burns:
Home of Miranda Lambert. But we built a house. And during that time of building a house, I actually lived with the Lamberts. And if you listen to Miranda Lambert, if you know country music, she has a song, it's a very well-known song, called The House That Built Me. I lived in that house. That is where my healing began. Beverly was our life group leader in church. Miranda sang in the church. And Rick, her dad, played guitar. My mom sang. They all sang in the praise team.
In life group, it's small groups that you meet in people's homes. I was 15 years old, 15, 16 in a group with my own peers. And I began to share all those father wounds, all that hurt. I began to share with my best friend, my beautiful blonde-haired cheerleader friend that had the perfect family. I was like, "I love you, but I'm so jealous of you. You have both your parents. You live in the picture-perfect family. I want what you have. And I'm jealous, deeply jealous of you. Envious of you."
And I began to peeling those layers like an onion, and God began to heal me. And as I began to share my wounds, all my peers sat and cried with me and prayed with me. And then they began sharing all of their own personal wounds. And so that's where my healing began.

Gary Schneeberger:
You mentioned earlier the importance of your mom having to lay some things down. Earlier in the story, she had to lay down cigarettes. She had to lay down some of her resentments. You just indicated you had to lay down, you had had to lean into forgiveness for your father. Were there other things over the course of time to help you heal that you had to lay down? I mean, you had to believe some things for sure, but were there other things that you had to lay down?
Because that's a traumatic... I mean, I want to make sure people caught the entire time that you were in Jordan was three months. This was not something... I mean, this was intense. This was quick. It was intense and it probably felt like a lot longer than that. But did you have to lay things down? Are you still finding yourself in a position where you have to do that? I mean, how has that stuck with you those three months?

Lauren Burns:
I kept thinking my dad was going to have the magic answer, because I did talk to him over the years. I wrote letters. We had phone calls. I actually saw him in person. I kept thinking he was going to have this magic answer of why he took me and it would make me feel better. Guess what? That didn't happen. Only God could heal that broken area. Only God could give me those answers. And so I had to know how to forgive him.

Warwick Fairfax:
So talk about your life now just as we round our time here. From what understand, you have a wonderful husband and two incredible boys. Obviously, a physical therapist and you're writing this book and have a podcast. It would seem like life can always be better, but it doesn't seem like it's that bad. It seems like it's pretty good right now.
I mean, does it feel like, at least compared to before, this probably does feel like Disney World. I'm sure there are days in which you pull your hair out with your boys and taking them here and there and it's a life of frenzy. But talk about your life now and how you look at life and your faith, husband and kids. What's life like for Lauren today?

Lauren Burns:
Life is good. I've gone through a lot of other hard things. I think when you live life long enough, you're going to go through hard things. And that happened at such a young age that, hey, I've got time for more hard stuff. So yes, I mean, I went through a hard time when I lost my stepfather, and we went through another traumatic event a couple of years back in my family.
I always want to be very authentic, but it is good. And God has brought me to a place. People will say, "Lauren, why are you sharing your story now?" Because I wasn't ready to share, I wasn't in a place where I can share the way God wants me to share three years ago, four years ago. God has brought me to a place of healing. I've been plugged into a Bible study for 14 years.
People have been pouring into me. I have people that are praying over me. Because when you're going to go out and share your testimony, the devil doesn't like it. And so we need people praying to protect us. And I've learned a lot and I'm still learning a lot. And I want to stay humble, and I want when people hear my story to hear God and not me. And so that's where my life is now.
My journey is to finish this book and to ask God, "Okay, what's the next steps? How do I get the book in the right person's hand to help share it?" I don't know what that looks like, but he does. And so that's where I'm at at this point of trying to be obedient and sharing my story and however God wants it to be shared.

Gary Schneeberger:
The sound you just heard, folks, is the sound of our captain having turned on the fasten seatbelt sign and indicate we're beginning our descent to land the plane on this conversation. But before we do that, I would be remiss if I didn't do a couple things. First thing, Lauren, is to tell you, because you probably already figured this out before I did, I grabbed my phone in the midst of the conversation and looked this up.
You mentioned that your mom paid $80,000 for those gentlemen to take you out of Jordan. That is about a quarter million dollars in today's money, just so you know. Because it's easy to look back on that for me and go, "80,000. Okay." That's a quarter million dollars in today's money. That's a big commitment that your mother made, and that's just one of the commitments that she made.
So that is just part of the beauty of your story. And the second thing that I want to make sure that I do is give you the chance where people can find your podcast and find out more about you online. Where can they go to do that?

Lauren Burns:
Thank you. The name is Redeemed Podcast. It's on Apple, Spotify, YouTube. You can find me on Facebook and Instagram, Lauren Burns or Lauren Burns Redeemed. And then my website is LaurenBurns.net. I would love for you to reach out, any questions, and follow me. I post scripture verses, and I try to do inspiring clips and interview people with amazing testimonies.

Gary Schneeberger:
Speaking of people with amazing testimonies, Warwick, you have one and I'll let you ask the last question or two.

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah, a couple of questions. I guess the first would be, as you're thinking and praying about your podcast Redeemed, which again, I love the title, and your book, what is your prayer? What is your desire for how God would use your book and your podcast and what you're doing?

Lauren Burns:
Number one, to help heal those wounds of anger and unforgiveness and bitterness, especially to people that have those father wounds or wounds of a parent and of a childhood to restore those broken areas. It doesn't necessarily mean to restore the relationship, but to restore those broken areas. Because forgiveness doesn't mean that you have to have a relationship with the person that hurt you.
Forgiveness means God, he's yours, and I'm laying him at your feet. And I'm letting go of that anger and that bitterness. So that's really my desire. And that I would really be intentional to hear God and what I do in the next steps. Which direction do I go? I really want him to lead me in every step of the way.

Warwick Fairfax:
And one final question that may be somebody listening to this and maybe they feel like today is their worst day, they're at the bottom of the pit as we sometimes say, what would a word of hope be to that person that feels like there is no hope? Maybe they feel like there is no God. How could there be? How could a good God let me be in this terrible situation I'm in? What would a word of hope be to that person?

Lauren Burns:
I am going to read a scripture verse in Isaiah because there is nothing better than scripture when we don't know what to do and which way to turn. Isaiah 43. But now, this is what the Lord, your Creator says, O Jacob, and He who formed you, O Israel, "Do not fear, for I have redeemed you. I have called you by name. You are mine! When you pass through the waters, I will be with you. And through the rivers, they will not overwhelm you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, nor will the flame burn you."
God sees you in your darkest time. God sees you in that miry pit. God sees you even when you don't believe him and when you don't trust him, when you don't want to pray. And all you have to do is just say his name, or ask someone else, "Hey, I don't even know if I believe in this God, but will you pray for me?" What's it going to hurt to take a chance and just say, "God, I don't know if you're real, but I need you because I'm desperate."

Gary Schneeberger:
Folks, I have been in the communications business long enough to know when the last words have been spoken on a subject. And our guest, Lauren Burns, just spoke it. Warwick, we just had a very powerful conversation with Lauren Burns. Lots of things to unpack to really think about, but just to help people know what it is they can drill down on and find, what's your big takeaway from a lot of takeaways in our conversation with Lauren?

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah. Gary, I feel like we had a conversation about redemption. Lauren Burns' story is a story about redemption and forgiveness. It was so hard to hear the details of her story. It wasn't like life was so terrible growing up. She had her mom and her dad, and she'd go to her dad's. And sometimes they go to a mosque and she wouldn't quite realize that this is not quite the same God, or at least from her mother's perspective.
And maybe it's Jesus of a different kind. She's a seven-year-old kid. She doesn't quite know what's going on. And her dad seemed to be a great dad, loving dad. But then she gets kidnapped by her dad, and her dad lies to her. He says, "Oh, your mom knows what's happening. We're just going on an adventure." And she's thinking, "Well, but this is Halloween. I've got my cheerleader outfit. We're going to trick or treating." He basically lies to her and takes her to Jordan.
And she's there for three months, and her dad is different. Culturally, for her dad's family, it's the women, the mothers, aunts are the ones that raise the kids and the dad goes to work. So dad is different around her. She has to wear a head covering and go to a religious Islamic school. She's in trauma. But she goes through all of this and you hear this miraculous story, miracle after miracle of how somehow her mother's able to get the money, $80,000 as you rightly pointed out. It's more like a quarter of a million in today's money.
Somehow her mother's able to connect with these ex-Rangers and Special Forces types in North Carolina who find a way to rescue her. I mean, it's just miraculous. So the whole story of how she's rescued is incredible. But I think to me, the biggest story, as incredible as that is, and she talks about this in the podcast of how she was able to forgive her father, as she mentioned.
Her father never said, "I'm sorry for what I did," Never acknowledged that what he did was kidnapping his daughter, was wrong, without her mother's permission at all. We all want when we've been wrong somebody to say, "I'm so sorry. What I did was wrong." But sadly, in the real world, in most cases, we never get that apology. We're never able to forgive a person who's confessed what they did was wrong.
I feel like nine times out of 10 people don't do that. It's just not the world we live in. So she's had to live in a world where she's had to forgive her father and get over the trauma that she's been through. She now has a wonderful husband, two wonderful boys. She's now embarking on this podcast Redeemed and with this book that she's writing. But forgiveness is not easy.
And I think as we listen and hear this podcast, a key point was when she was around other girls her age in high school, in this life group Bible study, and she started, I'm sure, weeping, talking about the trauma that she's been through. And the other girls talked about some of their experiences. And as we say, it's not a competition to see who's had the worst day, the worst experience.
But she felt like even the girls, she felt like they were pretty and fun with a perfect family. And she's like, "Well, they have challenges also." It's like she felt seen and heard, and that was pivotal in her beginning the steps to overcome what she's gone through. I think over time, she's learned how to forgive. Her story is a life of redemption, about how you get over that kind of pain and that kind of anger and bitterness or when something horrific like that has been done to you.
It's hard to imagine. But she has found a way. And if you don't get over that kind of trauma, or at least if you don't find a way to forgive, as we often say, it's like drinking poison. It destroys your life. If you don't forgive, that will almost guarantee your life will be destroyed. So you really have no choice if you try to think logically. But it's not easy. And she's found a way to forgive and redeem what she's been through. It's really a remarkable story.

Gary Schneeberger:
This doesn't happen often. In fact, I don't know that it's happened ever, but I don't have anything to add to that. You've summed it up perfectly. You've landed the plane, tied a bow, wrapped the package. Seriously, in all seriousness, there's really nothing I can add to that. So folks, if you haven't heard it yet, go listen to it. If you've listened to it and you're hearing this at the end of the show, share it with folks because there's some really intense, very, very meaningful learnings here.
Please know until the next time we're together that we understand that your crucible experiences are difficult. They're tough. Everybody here has had them. You've heard Lauren talk in detail about her crucibles, but you've also heard her make clear it wasn't the end of her story. In fact, for all of us, if we learn the lessons of our crucibles and we take those lessons forward, where we end up getting is to the best destination we can possibly get to, and that is a life of significance.
Welcome to a journey of transformation with the Beyond the Crucible Assessment. Unlike any other, this tool is designed to guide you from adversity to achievement. As you answer a few insightful questions, you won't just find a label like The Helper or The Individualist. Instead, you'll uncover your unique position in the journey of resilience.
This assessment reveals where you stand today, the direction you should aim for, and crucially, the steps to get there. It's more than an assessment. It's a roadmap to a life of significance. Ready? Visit beyondthecrucible.com. Take the free assessment and start charting your course to a life of significance today.

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