How To Assist, Not Control, Those You Want to Help

How To Assist, Not Control, Those You Want to Help

Have you ever found yourself thinking you’re helping someone, only to realize you’re really trying to fix them in a way that’s not helpful to either of you?

If so, you’ll want to listen to this discussion of Warwick’s latest blog at beyondthecrucible.com Beyond The Crucible dot com, in which he lays out several ways you can stop yourself before your actions get out of hand, from accepting that it is not our role to fix people and fix every situation, people have the right to be “wrong” and follow their own path … and always aim to treat people the way you would like to be treated.

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Transcript

Warwick Fairfax:
Welcome to Beyond the Crucible. I'm Warwick Fairfax, the founder of Beyond the Crucible. We often in the midst of our passion to fix somebody, the last thing we're thinking of is, gee, how would I like it if somebody did what I'm about to do to me? That is the last thing you're thinking of. You're fixated about helping somebody, fixing them. You're not thinking how it comes across.

Gary Schneeberger:
Have you ever found yourself in that situation thinking you're helping someone but really trying to fix them in a way that's not helpful to either of you? If so, you'll want to listen to this discussion of Warwick's latest blog at beyondthecrucible.com in which he lays out several ways you can stop yourself before your actions get out of hand. From accepting it's not our role to fix people in every situation and always aiming to treat people the way you want to be treated yourself. Welcome friends to this episode of Beyond the Crucible. This is one of those episodes that we do once a month, which is based on a blog that Warwick has written, and this is a very interesting blog. Warwick is, he's always passionate about the things that he writes about, but this one he was particularly at this time, he was passionate about.

In fact, you could say this blog was one that he just couldn't control himself. He had to write it. And you'll see why he's laughing when I tell you the title of the blog. The title of the blog is this, To Truly Help Others, Aim To Assist Them, Not Control Them. That is available now at beyondthecrucible.com. And we've got some good points. Warwick has eight points this time to talk about, and they're very interesting. So, Warwick, let me ask you this question. What was it that led you to write this blog called To Truly Help Others, Aim To Assist Them, Not Control Them? What was the impetus for it?

Warwick Fairfax:
Over the years I can think of a number of people, friends, family, coworkers who I've cared deeply about. And what's interesting is sometimes this caring, which is not bad in of itself, this caring about others can lead us to crossing the line from merely caring to trying to fix other people. And that's really what we're going to be discussing here is what is that line, what do you do if you attempted to try and control people? And so for me, I'm somebody who's naturally very reflective and I like to think I'm a caring person. So, being reflective and caring, it is natural for me to think about how others are doing and what they're doing and how they're leading their lives. And sometimes this can lead me to fixate about others or other situations, and I might be thinking they could be making different decisions and those decisions would lead them to having happier, more fulfilling and less painful lives.

I think many of us can do that, and it gets especially difficult when it's about people that we deeply care about, such as family, friends or even some coworkers. And so we feel like we kind of know the answer about what we need to do to help them whether they want to be helped or not. We feel like we have the solution, we know the answer, we've got the magic key. But for me, fortunately, most of these thoughts stay in my head as I do have high self-control. That can also lead me to sort of almost like in some computers when you've got the, it's sort of like that little spinning wheel. Some people got the circle of doom or whatever.

Gary Schneeberger:
Oh yes, yes.

Warwick Fairfax:
Spins and spins. So, it can be a bit like that in my head as I'm thinking about all these thoughts, even though I might think to myself probably wouldn't be received, probably shouldn't say it. That's also not helpful to have that little endless loop in your head about the things you might say to somebody. So, as a certified executive coach and international coach, federation coach, I believe very strongly in every person's right to chart their own path. So, while I might have these ideas in my head about what are the things that will "fix" people, I have high self-control and a strong belief that people need to chart their own path. So, that can produce some degree of inner conflict, so that can produce some tension. And despite my high self-control, I'm also a very passionate person. So, when I believe very strongly that I'm right, whether I'm right or wrong, it's a different question that this thing needs to be said, this person needs to be fixed.

Sometimes those thoughts will leak out, sometimes in productive ways, sometimes in not so productive ways. And so sometimes we're not always self-aware and we might think that these ideas in our head, we just want to offer some friendly advice, some helpful tips. I mean, it's kind of obvious we know the truth, we know what's right. We're just spreading the truth, sprinkling some divine truth in people's lives, at least as we look at it. And when we go through crucibles, this can actually sometimes make it worse because we might see somebody who's gone through a crucible that's similar to us perhaps, and even more so we feel like we've got beyond our crucible. We know the answer, we know the solution. It worked for us.

Gary Schneeberger:
We have the secret sauce, we have the secret sauce.

Warwick Fairfax:
So, if it worked for us, why wouldn't it work for every person on the planet who's gone through what we've gone through? Well, I think, and I know it's not quite that simple, what works for us may work for others or may not. And the problem is we may not always be right, nor will our solutions always be received well. So, yeah, this whole control thing, it actually can get worse. And we've gone through a crucible and we've a desperate desire to help people who've gone through what we've gone through or to help them avoid what we've gone through. None of that is a problem necessarily. We've had many guests on our podcast that have been through crucibles, that have used what they've gone through to help others, but how you do it is important. You got to be very careful you don't cross the line, as we said in the title of the blog, from assisting to controlling. That's a line we'll talk about more that we cannot cross.

Gary Schneeberger:
And just, I'll frame it up the way I think about it here as we get going, it occurred to me that people are not roads and we are not the National Highway Administration. In other words, it's not our responsibility to fix the roads, nor is it are the people who we are treating perhaps like roads. They're not to be walked on, they're not to be driven over. They're not our way to get to our destination. We can kind of think about it in those wrong terms and the roads have to repair themselves in this analogy, or at least a professional road fixer can fix them, but it's not our job. People aren't roads and we're not the National Highway Administration is the way I think about it.

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah, no, that's a good analogy. And people aren't potholes to use your road analogy, and it's not our job to fix all the potholes and they might say, "This is not a pothole." Oh yeah, no, we've got this great idea. We're going to fill it with rubber or sand or something because we're convinced that that's the best way to fill a pothole. Well, maybe not. Maybe our solutions aren't the right ones. So, yeah, I mean try to fix the road, clean up all the potholes, it's not our pothole, not our road. So, it's a good analogy.

Gary Schneeberger:
Thank you. Now we've got some other good points we're going to go through as we always do on these episodes, Warwick's points from the blog. As I said, the blog is called To Truly Help Others, Aim To Assist Them, Not to Control Them. And the first point in the blog, Warwick, is this, and we just talked about it a little bit, accept that this is not our role. It's not our role to fix people and to fix every situation. We are not the handyman of the world. It's not our job to do this. Talk about that a little bit.

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah, I mean this is one of the hardest points when you deeply care about somebody to say it's not our role to fix them. It's like or to fix every situation. If not me, then who? And the inner voice in our heads often says, "Well, if not me, then nobody. Who cares about this more than me?" Especially if it's spouse, child, sibling, parent, close friend. I mean, we might feel like we've known this person for years, decades, we know exactly what needs to be done. Maybe we're right, maybe we're not. But the point is we're not God.

It's hard to sit back and say, "How can we sit here and do nothing?" But we've got to make a choice. We need to ask ourselves whether it's really our role to fix other people. And if we ask ourselves that question, I think deep down we know what the answer is. The answer is no. We can say that in our head, but it all diminish how challenging it is when you might see somebody's life falling apart and you want to throw them a lifeline, you want to fix them it. We'll talk about this more. It can come out of the best motives, it can come out of the worst motives.

Gary Schneeberger:
And it's also true that the things that we want to fix sometimes, especially as they're going through crucibles, are things that really we can't fix. Meaning I'll bring up my example. I'll raise my hand and say, when I was living in alcoholism, there were a lot of people who offered even to assist, but some of them wanted to fix, some of them wanted to take me and bring me to rehab for instance. But there kinds of really strong deep cutting crucibles, the person who has the problem, who's going through the crucible has to want it.

You can't want it for them. That's why trying to fix them doesn't work in particular because it's not the kind of problem that they're going to take your advice. Nobody could have told me and many people tried, you should go into rehab, you should stop drinking, you should do this. And they tried. Even trying to assist me in that case was like, yep, thanks. Nothing to see here. I'm moving on. So, that's another part of this, isn't it, that some things that we try to fix, in fact, we can't fix unless the person has to be the one who instigates the fixing work, right?

Warwick Fairfax:
It's such a profound point. The person who potentially needs to be fixed, and obviously if it's something like alcoholism, it's not like different people can disagree about whether alcoholism is good or bad. I mean everybody on the planet believes it's not helpful, substance abuse. So, that's one of those where there's not a debate about is it helpful or not helpful? But even in that situation where the truth is clear, it's not helpful, if the person who has substance abuse problems or alcoholism doesn't want to be fixed. There's nothing you can do.

It's frustrating, especially to friends, but there's nothing you can do. So, ultimately when we talk about fixing, we have to want to be fixed. Now, if we start asking for help, that's different. But until we're at that point and who you want to ask help from could differ depending on who you trust, who has the solutions you believe in. I mean, not everybody that has a solution is a trusted source or the right source, or even if the solution is right, they might be a bull in a china shop. It may not be the right deliverer of the "truth", even if you believe it's truth. So, yeah, it's profoundly true until a person wants to be fixed or assisted or help improve their lives, there's nothing that you can do and that is a profound truth, that it's really, really difficult for outside people to grapple with.

Gary Schneeberger:
And that you kind of get to that in your second point in the blog, and that's this. Realize that our perspective on someone in any given situation won't always be right. That requires and talk a little bit more about it. But the first thing that leaps out to me is it requires a little humility to come to that place of realizing, "Well, I may not be right in what I want to do to fix this." So, talk about that a little bit.

Warwick Fairfax:
That's such a good point, Gary. One of the challenges can be when we're fixated on something or somebody and we want to fix them, we're often convinced that we are a hundred percent right. There's not 1% chance that we're wrong in terms of what the problem is and what the solution is. We're so so convinced. But the challenge is we won't always be right. Maybe there's information or perspectives that we're not aware of. How can we know everything about the situation? We can be so sure that we know what needs to be done. We think it's obvious. We just jump into action like a bull in a china shop without even hesitating to pause. But there might be information that we don't have and almost worse, we might not have really fully listened to the person that we're trying to help. Maybe the problem is it's not always like the situation.

You mentioned alcoholism. Sometimes the problem is less clear. Maybe we think it's a problem, maybe they think it's not a problem. Maybe they think it's fine. What is the problem? Sometimes it's in the eye of the beholder, so sometimes it won't always be right, still less will the solution be right. Certainly you've got to ask yourself, "Does that person have the right to be heard?" So, often when people are going through crucibles, they don't so much want our solutions. They just want somebody to just sit with them. I was at a conference recently really talking about caregiving, emotional health and different things, and very often what a person wants is what they call the ministry of presence.

Somebody just to sit with them and listen and be with them, not to solve them, not to fix them, just to be with them. If heaven forbid, you have a good friend who has a family member that's going through an incredibly difficult health prognosis that may not end well, what are you going to say?

You can't fix this. They just want you to be with them. They don't necessarily want you to Google the latest medical techniques and say, "Have you tried A, B and C? And there's this natural, I've heard about this thing in Germany that's new trial for X." I mean, there can be a place for that, but more than just coming up with all sorts of solutions, they just want you to sit with them. So, you just got to realize that you won't have all the information. You may be wrong. So, it's important to be humble. And how about listening to the person more than trying to fix them?

Gary Schneeberger:
I mean, all we can do in that situation when we're trying to help others or trying to fix them in the context of what we're talking about here, we can see what we see, but we don't feel what they feel. We don't think what they think. So, we have an incomplete picture if we're approaching it that way. So, that's why I think your point number two is so strong is because we can't, there's a certain amount of, dare I say, arrogance to think that we've got it all figured out when we haven't talked to them about it. We're just observing and then we're assuming into evidence what they feel, what they think, where we may not know it, right?

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah, I mean, how can we possibly have it all figured out? We might not have talked to them, maybe we haven't ever talked to friends, family, co-workers, just other people that might have information and perspectives that we don't. It won't often be the case, especially if it's let say a co-worker that we can just, "Hey, you don't know me, but I'd like to talk to this dad, son, relatives." I mean, that's not always appropriate. I mean, there's all sorts of information we just may not have and may never have. So, a little bit of humility saying, okay, how smart you are, there'll be things that you don't know. So, you've got to be willing to realize, you might be convinced you're right, that you might not be. There is always a chance and it could be a strong chance. So, a little bit of humility that can also help promote some self-restraint. If you have some doubt about whether you're right, maybe you would be a bit more careful about what you do and say.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah, and again, you always do this Warwick, it's great. You lead from one point into the next one, and I don't even think you realize you do it a lot of the time, but your third point in the blog goes right off of what you just said, and that is people have the right to be "wrong" in our minds, to be wrong and to follow their own path. We can't forget that even though we think we're right, we have the solution to their problem and we want to fix it. They have the right to be "wrong". Why is that so important to recognize and why is it so hard to recognize and to live out?

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah, let's take your case again, Gary, when you were suffering with alcoholism, people can say objectively, that's wrong. Gary's going down a "wrong" path that will be very detrimental for his health. Even in that case of alcoholism, when objectively it's not helpful and it's destructive, it's not always going to be that clear what's right or wrong. And even if we're convinced that person is following a wrong path, that will really hurt them. People have the right to be wrong. They have the right to follow their own path and make their own choices. And yes, we're defined by our choices and often choices have lifelong consequences, but that's their right to make that choice as we'll sort of say it's one thing to say, "Hey, do you mind if I offer a thought?" And I said, "I do. Please be quiet." At that point, what are you going to do? It doesn't mean you can't try, but there's, as we said at the very beginning of this in the title of the blog, aim to assist, not control.
It's one thing to ask permission. There's a way of doing that. I mean in coaching, it's all about asking the right questions, but ultimately, let's assume you do it all the right way. People still have the right to be wrong, so to speak and follow their own path, and you've got to respect that. It's not easy to love somebody and care for them deeply when they're following a path that's potentially going to be destructive and you think are wrong. We talk sometimes in relationships or marriage and love a person, right or wrong. In other words, the thesis behind that is you love them unconditionally even if you don't always agree with their choices. So, yeah, people have the right to be wrong and you've got to respect that. That's important. Again, none of this is easy, especially when you deeply care about them. Don't pretend this is a simple thing to do, but that's what we have to do. Respect people's right to make their own choices.

Gary Schneeberger:
That, folks, is point number three in Warwick's blog called To Truly Help Others, Aim To Assist Them, Not To Control Them. Here's point number four, treat people ... This is a good one. This is a good one. Treat people the way you would like to be treated. Put yourself, flip the script. Think of yourself as being the person that to whom someone comes with trying to fix. How well does that go over with you? So, treat people the way you would like to be treated. Why is that so important?

Warwick Fairfax:
Well, the point is, would we like to be controlled or told what to do in any given situation? I know for me, I don't like to be told what to do. I don't like to be controlled. Now ask me a good question, offer me a thought, and offering a thought means doing it with an open hand, not a closed fist so to speak. There's a spirit behind the way you do things, but if you don't want to be controlled, and most of us hate it, even those of us who at times can think, oh, we've got the answers to everything in our worst moments, we can be like that.
We typically hate it when others tell us what to do. Why would we try to force somebody to make a certain decision or live a certain way and line with our viewpoints? We would hate it if that happened to us. So, next time we're tempted to convince somebody of something, think about how we would take it. That would hopefully give us pause and give us a bit more humility. It sounds so simple, but we do need to treat people the way you would like to be treated. A simple thought, but we often in the midst of our passion to fix somebody, the last thing we're thinking of is, gee, how would I like it if somebody did what I'm about to do to me? That is the last thing you're thinking of. You're fixated about helping somebody, fixing them. You're not thinking how it comes across. I don't care how it comes across. It's not time for politeness. That's a five-alarm fire. I need to fix this situation. I need to fix the person. Let's go. You're not thinking about how it's going to come across.

Gary Schneeberger:
If we're treating people the way we want to be treated, say that you really don't appreciate it when someone says A, B or C to you. Guess what? Start your sentences with D, right? Begin somewhere else, right? If you don't like A, B and C, then begin your sentences with D and that will keep you from overstaying your welcome in the sense of trying to fix them rather than assist them. That's wisdom, right?

Warwick Fairfax:
Absolutely. Well said.

Gary Schneeberger:
That folks was point four. Now we're onto point 5 in Warwick's blog, To Truly Help Others, Aim To Assist Them, Not Control Them. You can find that at beyondthecrucible.com. And point number five is this. This is another soul-searching soul work kind of question. Analyze why we have a need to fix a given person or situation. And I think what you did here, Warwick, or what you're getting at is there are certain people that it's more of a lean into that you really want to fix certain people more than others. That's what you're getting at here. So, the idea is to analyze why we have a need to fix a given person or situation. Why is that critical?

Warwick Fairfax:
So, this can be where temptation lies. When we have a crucible situation, which we have found a way to get beyond, have bounced back from, we might care so deeply about anybody that's been through the same situation that we have and we feel like we desperately want to help them. We know the answer. And it could be that the pain or the crucible we've gone through has been so awful that we feel like it's our mission in life to help people who've gone through what we've gone through and we feel like there is the right answer. Don't do what I did, don't make the mistakes I made. This is the path back. And so when you are tempted to try and fix somebody, you want to ask yourself, "Well, why? Is it all just about the other person or is it about somehow I want to redeem the pain of my life and I want to fix everybody that's gone through what I've gone through?"
It's not wrong. I mean, we talk a lot about did it happen to you or for you, for you being there was a reason, some higher purpose used it to help people, that's fine. But there's a line in which again, you go from assist to control. If you understand why you have this desperate fixation to help somebody, which it's never good if those two words desperate and fixated going together, ask yourself, "Why do I feel so strongly? Where's this coming from? Is it coming from a good place, a bad place?" So, that's why it's really important and sometimes often our solution won't always be the right solution. So, for me, one example would be growing up in this 150 year old family media business in Australia, which was massive for the time I grew up with a family company owning newspapers, TV, radio, magazines launched a 2.25 billion takeover when I was like 26 fresh out of Harvard Business School in 1987.
Three years later, it spectacularly failed after family members sold out in October '87 stock market crashed. So, I might look back at family businesses, and I've said this before to folks just say no. Don't be involved in a family business because there'll be infighting as there was in my family for decades before, and find your own path and don't follow somebody else's vision. And that was true, I believe in my case, but it doesn't mean all family businesses are inherently toxic. Yes, there are challenges, but it doesn't mean my solution, which could be if you're a young person in the family of business, just say no and leave. You'd be a fool to stay. I'm tempted to offer that solution. Is that truth? It depends on the person, their gifting, the family.

Gary Schneeberger:
It's interesting, Warwick, we're now through five points and there's a theme that I didn't realize was here in that we say a lot at Beyond the Crucible, the importance, the need, the necessity of doing the soul work for ourselves as we dig into what's our vision going to be? How are we going to come back from our crucible? All of those things. But intrinsic in these five points seems like we can't do the soul work for the other guy, right? That's one of the things that you're talking about I think is as you're talking about the dangers of trying to fix someone. We don't know their soul work. We can't do their soul work. That's one of the reasons why that fails, isn't it?

Warwick Fairfax:
It's really true. And in order to help others in the right way, we have to do our own soul work. It's back to that after use analogy when you hear the safety demonstration on an airline and they'll say, "If you have a young child with you, put the oxygen mask on yourself before the child. You have to be able to breathe first." If you can't breathe, how in the world can you help anybody else? You can't. And so one of the ways of reducing the temptation to fix people, because very often when it's done the wrong way, it's never good to fix somebody. But when do you go from assist to fix from coming alongside rather than steamroll? When does a shift happen? When and where?
It's often it is linked to our pain and our crucibles. Not always, but I think often. And so as we do our soul work and get in touch with the pain that we've been through, it will reduce the tendency of us wanting to fix things. It will give us more self-control. And in my case, my example, if I come across somebody, a young person in a family of business, I'll realize, okay, this is a wound for me. This is an area where I'll tend to want to fix it. This is where I have to be very, very careful in what I say and how I say which because I'm a trained executive coach and have high self-control, I can do, but because I'm aware of the pain it may and have done the soul work, it makes me more cognizant of where the potholes are to use that analogy that we used before and not stab at them. So, doing our own soul work will help us avoid fixating on fixing other people.
And when we get in that fixation state that I countless times get in. You know when you're in and you can hopefully try and avoid it, not always, but at least you will reduce the number of fixation moments, fixing moments that you have. None of us are perfect. We'll never be. We'll never bat a thousand. There'll always be times in which we step over the line and try to fix somebody, but doing our own soul work, just as everybody has to do their own soul work to get beyond their own crucibles, get beyond their own challenges. By us doing our own soul work, it helps us avoid fixating and try to fix people rather than coming alongside them.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah, point six is interesting, Warwick. I have half a mind to not ask you a question after I say it. It's point six, folks, is let go and let God. What I want to say is next. Okay, point seven. Because really that sums it all up, doesn't it? Right. Let go and let God.

Warwick Fairfax:
It surely does.

Gary Schneeberger:
Sort of sums it up, but I'd be denying our listeners and viewers your wisdom if I didn't say, why is that so critical and so important? And it's interesting, you made it point number six. You didn't make it point number one, right? You had to work through some stuff. Now you're at this place, let go and let God, you've done everything you can do. Maybe just take your hands off. Talk a little bit about that.

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah, there are times in which you've got to take your hands off the steering wheel. I'm trying to remember. It's years ago, I think Carrie Underwood.

Gary Schneeberger:
Carrie Underwood, Jesus Take the Wheel.

Warwick Fairfax:
Exactly. Now, obviously not everybody believes in Jesus and God and all that, but there's a principle certainly for people of faith that a wider principle, sometimes you've got to take the hands off the steering wheel and in this case, in my belief, let go and let God. So, I think most people are spiritual. So, let's say you believe in a higher power or some religious spiritual perspective, you need to realize that we're not in control. Sometimes things unfold for a reason, a purpose that we can't fully understand, but maybe it becomes clear decades later. There are many things in life we can't control or fix, and maybe we've tried to help, maybe we've tried to do it the right way. Maybe we've fixated and being too pushing and controlling. But either way, at a certain point as somebody says, "Look, I don't want your help. Leave me alone."
As you Gary mentioned that you have said at different points in your life, you've got to respect that we need to believe in some higher power, some broader purpose, and that can give us hope that while we may not be able to fix the situation, perhaps one day someone else or some other higher power might be at work. So, let's say you were some other person and you were chatting to a friend or family member of yours when you, Gary, were in the midst of holism and that challenge and that friend might offer that family member some advice along these lines. What do you think that advice should be?

Gary Schneeberger:
I can answer the question and I can give you a real life example. I think the advice would be just he's got to figure it out. If you are believers, pray for him. If not, just be there if he ever calls and he needs something in the middle of the night, don't walk away from him. That's one of the things people can walk away from. People who are really going through. Not the most pretty crucibles, and I'm fortunate that didn't happen to me, but I have a real life story war about my alcoholism and this very idea of letting go and letting God. My cousin Sharon, I don't know if you're listening to this Sharon, but I'll try to get it to you so you can hear it because I love telling this story. There was a period of time in 1994, my mom passed away at 63.
I was 29 and I gave the eulogy at her funeral and I was kind of a wreck. And after the funeral went out and got inebriated and I was just an emotional basket case. I was really riven by that moment, losing my mom so young. Almost two years later, next calendar year, but almost two years later, my brother Jeff, who was my greatest supporter and just a great friend as well as a brother, he passed away of complications resulting from AIDS. My mom had brain cancer. And I gave his eulogy at his funeral, and as you might imagine, the extended family was there and my cousin Sharon was there and she saw just what a wreck I was, not just because of their death, but just the wreck I was. From the time she saw me at mom's funeral to the time she saw me at Jeff's funeral, she could see that I had deteriorated in the way that I was kind of comporting myself in the way I was deeply, deeply in the grips of alcoholism.
I didn't see Sharon for a few more years after my mom passed away. My stepdad was lived four more years or so, and then he passed away. But by that time when Irv passed away, I had gotten sober and I had become a Christian. So, she came. My cousin Sharon came to that funeral as well, and I give the eulogy for Irv. Well, I go up there and I basically preach the gospel and give an altar call in which I ask people to, if you want to accept Jesus, repeat after me. And she came up to me after that. It was so sweet. It still gives me chills to think about. She came up to me afterwards and she said, "Gary, I prayed for you from the time of your mom's funeral through Jeff's, through Irv, you know, up until right now, I prayed for you to get sober. I prayed for you to accept Jesus."
And that was over the course of what? Six, seven years she was praying for me. And it took, God answered that prayer. Now, God doesn't always answer the prayers the way that we want them to. Sharon probably didn't expect it. Maybe her faith might've been strong, but it was a long shot given how much of a ragtag alcoholic I was. But she saw me standing there and she realized God had answered her prayer. She had done exactly what you write here, Warwick. She had let go. She wasn't trying to change me. She saw that I was in trouble, but she didn't berate me or she didn't try to fix me. She didn't try to control me. She simply let go and let God and the results I hope speak for themselves.

Warwick Fairfax:
Gary, that is an incredible story. Your cousin Sharon, she really did it the right way. She truly did let go and let God, her heart was breaking as she was hearing you give the eulogies for your mom and your brother and stepdad.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yes.

Warwick Fairfax:
I mean, that's a lot of eulogies in a short period of time. And you could say, "Well, why should she have hope that you would be able to come back from alcoholism and have it not control you?" But yet having hope doesn't mean that our prayers will always be answered. We'll never quite understand how that works, but she had hope. She let go and let God. And sometimes in God's providence, those prayers will be answered and they were for her. And I'm sure that may be one of the highlights of her life I would assume if you ask her, she'd probably say that of just praying for all those years and seeing how God entered your life. And I think from your perspective, not just saved you from alcoholism, but saved you in a broader sense of the word.

Gary Schneeberger:
Amen.

Warwick Fairfax:
What more joy can there be for a person of faith? So, your cousin Sharon is really a model of how to let go and let God. Doesn't mean your heart doesn't break. I'm sure her heart broke for years.

Gary Schneeberger:
Absolutely. Yeah.

Warwick Fairfax:
Especially the earlier eulogies, but yet she still had hope. And so hope is often one of the biggest forces we can cling to. It doesn't mean every prayer will be realized or every hope answered, if you will, but that's a great model of the right way of doing it. So, yes, you want to know what it means to let go and let God contact Sharon and she'll let you know.

Gary Schneeberger:
Yeah, she'll love me for that. All right, that was point number six, folks, in Warwick's blog, To Truly Help Others, Aim To Assist Them, Not Control Them. Let's go through the first six now before we move on to number seven. Number one, accept that it's not our role to fix people and fix every situation. Number two, realize that our perspective on someone in any given situation won't always be right. Muster a little humility. We're not always perfectly accurate in the things that we think and feel. Number three, point three, people have the right to be "wrong", and follow their own path. Number four, treat people the way that you would like to be treated.
Point five, analyze why we have a need to fix a given person or situation. What is it in us that makes us lean into that feeling, that desire? And then the sixth point we just talked about, let go and let God. That brings us to point seven, Warwick, and that's this. Confess and apologize when we have stepped over the line and have been controlling. Probably the easiest point in this entire [inaudible 00:40:29]. Kidding, kidding, kidding. Confess and apologize when we've stepped over the line and have been controlling. Why is that important and how do we do that? Because as a culture, generally speaking, we're not very good at apologies.

Warwick Fairfax:
This is one of the hardest points. It doesn't really get any easy as we keep going through this. I mean confessing and apologizing when we stepped over the line of being controlling that is so monumentally hard. Often we'd like to think we have the best of intentions, but maybe our passion, our desire to "help somebody" can go from assist to control to fixation and hopefully we've done enough in our soul work to be self-aware enough that we have the tendency to be controlling in certain situations. I described if I come across a young person, a family business, whatever our crucible was, there will often be a tendency to try and fix somebody when we see somebody with a similar situation that we've gone through. So, some inner soul works and self-awareness can help us realize, yep, I tend to go over the line and I did it again.
So, that's when we have to have enough humility and say, "I'm sorry I was trying to help, but I came across too hard, too harsh. I came across like I knew all the answers, which I may not. I didn't really fully listen to you. I tried to fix you, not listen to you. So, I'm very sorry." You might be surprised. Some people will actually appreciate that and will have grace and appreciate our contrition and may forgive us and that can actually lead to a strengthening of the relationship. But when we've stepped over the line and being controlling, we have to be willing to apologize. Sometimes in an ideal world, we would do it on our own. Sometimes people will call us out.
If we've done the inner soul work, we should say, "Well, I don't know if I stepped over the line, but this is an area where I tend to. My brokenness is around this particular crucible that just talked about something in which they accused me of being controlling around this crucible. I should the very least think, pray, reflect that it could absolutely be a possibility. Because I do tend to be controlling when this situation comes up. I do tend to be triggered." If you've done the soul work, there should be bright warning lights flashing your brain saying, "I might be hearing truth from this other person that I was controlling and I stepped over the line." If you've done the soul work, at the very least, you should be seeing that yellow flashing light. At that point, did some inner soul work, prayer, whatever spiritual paradigm that you have, and then apologize. I have this thought, this aphorism if you will, that if you're 50/50 about whether you did something wrong, it doesn't hurt to apologize.
My philosophy is God will never be harsh on you for apologizing too much. You don't get dinged by God for that. Apologizing too little. I don't know, maybe, but not apologizing too much. So, if it's the 50/50 call, then either do a bit more soul work or just say, "You know what? I'm not sure, but I could have. I'm sorry." So, it's just really important because that helps you move on and it helps undo some of the damage that can be done by being controlling. If the person realizes you're a passionate person, sometimes you're going to be controlling and then you apologize. The relationship is preserved, the trust is preserved, and they might actually ask you for advice knowing if you try to control or not assist and go over the line, which you might do one out of three or four times, you'll apologize and you can move on. It strengthens the relationship. So, it's really important, the ability to apologize when you've gone over the line.

Gary Schneeberger:
Here's the eighth and final point folks, and this is to Warwick's point, they get harder as they go along, and this is probably the hardest one right here. Number eight is focus on "fixing" ourselves. And a couple of thoughts from me on this one, right? You've heard the phrase, charity begins at home. I tweak it a bit and say clarity begins at home. And so you've got to dig deep and get clarity about yourself that will help you with focusing on fixing ourselves. And the other thing is we've been talking about Warwick's blog, which is titled, To Truly Help Others, Aim To Assist Them, Not Control Them. That's available at beyondthecrucible.com in this particular point, point eight, really we want to control ourselves. I mean the only people we can control are is ourselves and if we're going to fix ourselves, we're going to focus on fixing ourselves, we have to get ourselves under control. So, unpack point number eight, Warwick, for folks.

Warwick Fairfax:
Yeah, it's a great point. Instead of trying to fix somebody else's house, fix your own house first. Fix the leak in the roof, redo your house if you think there's stuff that needs to be improved, but it's so easy to focus on others. We've talked a lot about this in this discussion. We need to do that inner soul work first. We need to focus on our own issues and problems because ironically, that will help reduce the amount of times that we try to control others and fix others. And we've talked about this that often our desire to control and fix people will come out of our crucible. We don't want them to go through what we went through. We feel like we have the answers, we've got the solution. And so we need to have enough self-control inner soul work to realize that our desire to fix somebody may not come out of a great place.
And so the more that we can focus on dealing with our own issues, often as we've talked a lot about at Beyond the Crucible, if you've made mistakes yourself, which I have, there can be a tendency to crucify yourself. You've got to do the soul work of forgiving yourself for the mistakes. Doesn't mean there aren't consequences, but you've got to forgive both yourself, forgive others. Let's say it's things that were done to you. You've got to do the inner soul work. What are the lessons learned? How can they go from it didn't happen to me to happen for me? Maybe there's a vision coming out of my crucible that will help others, but doing the inner soul work will tend to reduce that desire. Sometimes we have this desire to fix people because I don't know, I'll feel better about myself if I run around the world fixing people.
Feeling better about yourself doesn't come from fixing others. It comes from believing you have high self-worth. We talk about this a lot at Beyond the Crucible. Psalm 139 that says that we're beautifully and wonderfully made. We have to believe that as human beings, we have inherent self-worth, that God loves us unconditionally despite our quirks and foibles and past mistakes. So, when you believe that you are truly loved and have self-worth and do the inner soul work, you recognize your problems, your issues, it can help us reduce the desire to fix people. Because there's a link. The more you do the soul work, the less chance that you'll step over the line. You won't be perfect, but there'll be less chance you will run around trying to fix others. And when you do go over the line, especially if other people call you out, you go, "Oh yeah, I'm sorry."
I'm not perfect. I can be defensive, but because I feel like I know my wounds well if not very well, if people call ... And I'm a passionate person beneath my reserved exterior, I have passions, beliefs about so many things. I can step over the line to the point where I'm fixating or maybe try to control a situation or a person. So, if I'm called out on that, it's like, "Oh yeah, I'm sorry. You're right." I mean, sometimes it takes me a while. Sometimes it takes me a couple of milliseconds. Because I know myself, I know the situation. I know my tendencies. Okay, fine. You don't need to spell it. I got it. You're right. I'm sorry. Sometimes, not always. It can be that quick. In our better moments, we've done the inner soul work.
We're focused on fixing ourselves. It can A, reduce the tendency we have to control and fix people and B, when we step over the line, which we will because we're human, it will make it quicker and easier for us to apologize without getting to the self-flagellation. I'm a terrible person. I can't believe I did that rather than, yep, I'm human. That was not smart. That was done. Okay, I'm moving on. I said what I needed to say. I apologized. I'm not going to berate myself. I made a mistake and I apologized. We dealt with it. We're good. I'm moving on. That is a healthy soul position to be in.

Gary Schneeberger:
And that, folks, ends our discussion of, To Truly Help Others, Aim To Assist Them, Not Control Them. That's Warwick's latest blog at beyondthecrucible.com. Check it out. Warwick, we've covered a lot of ground here. Again, as always, ground we expected to cover and then ground that just popped up that we didn't expect to cover because it was part of the conversation. That's what makes these conversations so rich I think. Out of that rich conversation, what's the one truth, the one important thing that listeners and viewers can do that you'd like to leave with them as they go?

Warwick Fairfax:
So, it's very understandable when we have family, friends or coworkers that we deeply care about that we want to help them. It's fine to offer advice or suggestions, offering questions and being a certified executive coach offering questions so that they come to their own answers is often the ideal way you ask the right question. If somebody's earnestly seeking and is trying to be honest about a situation, they'll come up with their own truth. Maybe not the truth that you would say, but that's often a better way of doing it.
But sometimes done the right way with an open hand, the right spirit offering advice and suggestions can work or can be helpful, but again, be careful. Typically, people don't like unsolicited advice. If you say, "Look, I've got a few thoughts. You mind me sharing with you? It's about a hundred points. It shouldn't take more than two or three hours and then we'll be done. Is that okay? Okay, fine. How about the top 75? At least that's part one. Part two will be tomorrow. I've got a few more because you're so messed up. I've got a lot to cover, but we'll get there. It's like a marathon hang in there."
That's just typically not appreciated. So, it's just not appropriate to fixate about helping somebody. It's at the point where we get controlling. If there's something you go over in your mind for hours about a speech you're going to give that person and it's got five sub bullets and sub bullets under the sub bullets, that's typically not a good sign. When it just spins around and around and around in your brain, that's typically not good, especially when there's the passion and there's, I got to fix them. That's when from my perspective, I pray, I say, "Lord, stop me fixating. Stop me doing this. This is not helpful." So, I try to nip it in the bud as we often talk about before the weeds become bigger weeds.
So, that's certainly for me, my truth is prayer is very helpful, but we've got to stop fixating about helping people because that will tend to alienate people and drive them away. I think about that. The serenity prayer that obviously you'd be familiar with. It's by Reinhold Niebuhr. It's widely used by Alcoholics Anonymous, and whether you believe in God or in some higher power, there's incredible wisdom, and this is how it goes. The serenity prayer. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. There's a lot of things we can't change and we've got to have the wisdom to know, okay, I've tried to offer my advice, my suggestions, it was not received, it was shoved back at my face.
I've got to let go and let God, maybe like Gary's cousin Sharon, maybe in the years to come and there would be hope for Gary. And there was. She didn't know that, but she prayed earnestly, "Lord, please help Gary, please help him know you. Please help him get freed from alcoholism." She had no idea what the outcome would be, but that is the right posture to let go, let God. I think faith is helpful and realize you can't fix other people, as Gary said, unless they want to be fixed. And I think Gary's situation, and you can talk more about it, you came to a point where you made a decision. Do you wanted to change the path?

Gary Schneeberger:
Yep.

Warwick Fairfax:
That was your choice and your decision. It wasn't somebody fixing you. It was between, I don't know, between you and God. It's like you made a decision. So, that's how it worked for you, I think. Is that like a fair [inaudible 00:54:33]-

Gary Schneeberger:
Oh, for sure. Yeah, it was. I had to get to the end of myself as I say. I'd stretched the rope far too long, for far too long, and I just came to the end of myself and I needed help and I went and sought it, and that was 28 years ago in April. So, worked pretty well.

Warwick Fairfax:
Well said.

Gary Schneeberger:
Speaking of things that are well said, Warwick always finishes these blogs with reflection questions for you, the listener and viewer. So, I'm going to run through what those are. There's usually three of them. There are three of them this week. Number one is to identify who or what we are trying to control. You may need the piece of paper to write down if there's more than one individual or one situation that falls into that description. So, identify who or what we're trying to control. Number two is to reflect on why we are trying to control them or a given situation. So, identify it and then why, explain why it is indeed something that you're trying to control. And the third point is, this sounds so simple, but this is the hardest point of the three, right? Writing stuff down and like, okay, here's what it is. Here's why I feel this way.
But the third one is this. Make a decision to stop controlling the situation or the person. Warwick didn't write this in the blog, but I'll add it at the end. Right now, make a decision to stop controlling the individual or the person. Right now. Don't wait till tomorrow. Do it today in the moment that you're thinking about it, make that decision and then stick to that decision and things will go well with you as they say. That brings us to the end of this episode, folks. Please remember until the time we're together that we know your crucible experiences are hard. We know that the thing that we've been talking about here, this idea of trying to control people, trying to fix people, that can become a crucible for you and for somebody else. We know that's true, but we also know that crucible or any crucible is not the end of your story.
In fact, if you learn the lessons from your crucible, if you do the soul work that we've been talking about here, as you move forward, what'll happen is you will be set on a course to a destination that can become the most rewarding destination of your life, and that destination is a life of significance. Welcome to a journey of transformation with Beyond the Crucible Assessment. Unlike any other, this tool is designed to guide you from adversity to achievement. As you answer a few insightful questions, you won't just find a label like the helper or the individualist. Instead, you'll uncover your unique position in the journey of resilience. This assessment reveals where you stand today, the direction you should aim for, and crucially the steps to get there. It's more than an assessment. It's a road map to a life of significance. Ready? Visit beyondthecrucible.com, take the free assessment and start charting your course to a life of significance today.